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  1. #21
    Member illume's Avatar
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    Hi Dear.... Having had a LTR with an ESFP (not the same as an ESTP, but similar traits), I can tell you that mine NEVER discussed deep feelings. Was terrible at expressing remorse too.....I think you are expecting a lot from someone who may be sorry but will never express anything more than "I'm sorry." I also found his responses to my hurt feelings to frequently be terse and unkind. You are the deepest of the deep and to be perfectly blunt, any SP in my opinion is just not up to NF standards on depth. My relationships with any of them have always been sadly lacking for that reason among others. Perhaps a friendship would be different? Maybe, maybe not. I am still wary.

    I think if you can accept things more of a "face value fashion", you will be fine. It is just about damn near impossible for an NF to do that.......Just don't expect much from an ESxP.

  2. #22
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    No harm, no foul. You see things one way and I see them another. There is no argument as far as I can see. I've been in very similar situations as that guy (I won't use the word exact anymore, my bad) and I was just trying to give her another perspective. But I am out of my element here... I'll just go back and play in the NT forum. Seriously, no offense taken and none given. I promise. Friends? Yes.
    Well actually, you did help give me a bit of a different perspective. Like, the thing about not taking him seriously...that is worth giving thought to.

    I just felt that you were jumping to conclusions and trying to absolve him of any responsibility (more than I was trying to absolve myself of any responsibility). There's always two sides. Very likely I do want comfort more than advice, but I think I've also acknowledged some of the things I've done wrong.

    I also know that I'm stupid when it comes to relationships/feelings. My logic may be fully engaged and heading in one direction, but the emotions head in the other direction and overpower the logic. I hate it.

  3. #23
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    ...and the fact is, next time hes acting friendly and wants a good long chat with me, or whatever, Ill probably go right back to him. Im just not that tough about friends, particularly guy friends I also have feelings for!

    Sorry for rambling on and onI know this is really long. But if you have any suggestions for how I can approach this situation/this friendship, how I can better deal with these useless and frustrating feelings, etc, Id really appreciate it.

    Thanks all!
    I think you are at the point that you know better but still are "easy" for him. (not in the sexual way) If you don't want to change the situation you are going to have to focus on the fact that it's about YOU.

    You are willing to hang out with him not because of what might happen in the future or your great love, but because you actually like hanging out with him. You are getting something from the relationship, you are not martyring yourself for him. You need to remind yourself of this when you are willing to be "easy." There is nothing wrong with an on/off relationship or being "easy" as long as you treat it appropriately and don't blame the other party for your choices.

    You may have a different take on things when you focus on what you are getting out of it instead of what you feel he is taking from you. I think the frustrated and useless feelings can go away when you focus on that.

  4. #24
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Well actually, you did help give me a bit of a different perspective. Like, the thing about not taking him seriously...that is worth giving thought to.

    I just felt that you were jumping to conclusions and trying to absolve him of any responsibility (more than I was trying to absolve myself of any responsibility). There's always two sides. Very likely I do want comfort more than advice, but I think I've also acknowledged some of the things I've done wrong.

    I also know that I'm stupid when it comes to relationships/feelings. My logic may be fully engaged and heading in one direction, but the emotions head in the other direction and overpower the logic. I hate it.
    Fair enough.

    I wasn't absolving anyone, nor was I demonizing anyone. I'm just saying that whether he hurt your feelings or not in that text, he did tell you the truth and I, for one, would never apologize for telling the truth. Never. So I can identify his reluctance to do so (and sincerely mean it). You, on the other hand, have not been completely honest with him, by your own admission. You like this guy a lot more than you told him verbally, but he felt it when you flipped on him and told you straight out his intentions. And the anger you have at him for dissing you may be justified because he acted like an asshole, but it also may be intensified because of his relationship with the other women that made you jealous. I suspect he knows that there is no way to maintain a "normal" friendship with you and so he withdrew. I could be wrong. I could also be hurting you. It's not my intention to hurt you. Either way, I'm speaking from my own experience and not yours.

    My experience as a female NT having male NF friends have *always* ended in the scenario that you described. I also lived with an ESTP bf for 4 years. I feel like I have a good grasp of what the situation is, but I'm not omniscient.

    I don't know the right words to say and I guess I have tripped over them and struck a nerve even though I was sincerely trying to be kind. I'm also stupid when it comes to relationships and feelings.

  5. #25
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I suspect he knows that there is no way to maintain a "normal" friendship with you and so he withdrew.
    BINGO. As an ESTP male, I am able to say, that if we are engaged in any situation and we detect that for whatever reason it is not possible to deal with it on reasonable terms, we will be pre-disposed to leave if our stake in it is not significant. e.g. "Oh, my chances of realizing a good experience here are slim to none, I must move on." No anger, no hatred about it, just the facts. Other extrovert thinkers have told me this happens with them too...

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I'm also stupid when it comes to relationships and feelings.
    Join the club!!!

  6. #26
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I think, bottom line, you're invested more than he is. He wants to be your friend, but only as long as it's easy and fun for him. When you start making demands, he's probably wondering if it's worth it or not. I have friends like this. I like them, but they're more invested, and they start making demands and I resent it and it's almost impossible for me to give them what they want. And if this is the case, it's easier for him to avoid you for a while than to say, "You're being too clingy and I need to you to back off." Because he probably figures that would result in a big emotional talk or a doorslam.
    Something Witty

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