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  1. #11
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post



    Maybe he pulled away because he feels that you don't take him seriously? If he understands why you're upset but is not sorry because he didn't do anything, why should you force him to say that he is? Words are empty and meaningless. Anyone can say anything. He reached out to you by doing a few nice gestures and you wrote it off as immature. He was trying to be start over. But you only accept him as mature when you force him to say words he doesn't mean? I think immaturity is making too much of a situation and not recognizing the efforts that others make for you. Holding a grudge, and rejecting me for it, is the quickest way to get left in the dust, imo. Just another side of the coin - may not apply to you specifically.
    Well...I don't think it would be fair to say that I wrote his gestures off as immature. I mean, I accepted his overtures and his apologies and thought we could move on and be friends again. Nor did I force him to apologise...he did that freely, but I had to lead him there first. I suppose that applies to a lot of us, though. And I don't think he understood when we had the blow-up last year why I was upset. Well...he did guess that I liked him, but we didn't even go there when we patched it up later. I didn't bring it up, and I have a feeling that he thought/thinks either that he made a mistake and I didn't have feelings for him, or that I did but had put them aside and moved on. But I actually said to him directly "do you understand what I've been upset about for the better part of 3 months?" And he said "Not really..." I then told him I couldn't handle the inconsistency.

    I suppose it is possible he thinks I don't take him seriously, but I don't really think that's the problem here. I enjoy the lighthearted side of him, it's one thing I found attractive about him, though I also feel like he sometimes takes it too far - but he definitely thinks I sometimes takes the seriousness too far, and he'd be right! I prefer the serious conversations we have though, because that's more the way I'm inclined. I listen, I don't belittle his feelings...I don't think that's the problem here. I'm more inclined to think that I fall into the category of "interesting variety" for a while, since I think it's fair to say I'm quite different from a lot of his friends...so he pays me tons of attention intermittently, and then gets bored. If I had straightforward friend feelings for him, this might not be a big problem (though I value consistency in my friends), but given that I do seem to still have feelings, it is just making things hard for me.

  2. #12
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    This is how I see the situation and I'm not trying to hurt you - I hope you understand this. I'm just letting you know how it is from my perspective. I've been in his situation a LOT with men (I'm female, btw...)

    I say "not really" for 2 reasons:
    1. because I'm tired of talking about it
    2. because I don't want to hurt your feelings

    But believe me, I know and understand.


    If you were upset that he dissed you, why didn't you tell him then, or the next day? He would know why you are upset and not do it again (or do it rarely - hey, he's human...) Saving up all these slights for one big blow up is not the way to handle things with EPs. It makes no sense to be upset anymore. It didn't bother you before, so why now?

    And "using" you??? At that point, I would think you had lost your mind. When someone blows up at me like that, I also assume it's because men and women can't be friends. If we were really friends, you would have just told me in the first place... He obviously knew you liked him and wanted to tell you that you would only ever be friends. And that the argument is really stemming from you wanting more than he was willing to give, so you get angry when he pulls away. In his mind (and in mine) he did address your angry texts by cutting right to the chase and calling a spade a spade.

    He was honest and sincere without trying to hurt your feelings.

    And then you "lead" him to an apology (by guilt? by constantly harping about it?)... He recognized that you liked him more than he likes you, and he recognized that he may have embarrassed you by pointing it out. So he tries to make amends in a way that takes the pressure off (jokes, texts...)

    All those long, "meaty" talks can be quite draining to an EP, so maybe he just needs some space. But I think it's wise to assume that you guys are not a match made in heaven. Almost any kind of EP would have made a move by now - it's been 3 years already, just move on because he wants to be friends and it's clear that you can't be.

  3. #13
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Your points are valid, but I don't think you quite understand. As far as "leading him to an apology"...by that, I mean I explained why my feelings had been hurt, and he apologised. Actually, to be specific, I blew up at him, he sent me a rather mean (well, certainly not kind) text back...which I can't entirely blame him for, but it still wasn't pleasant. I replied "you don't get it, I just wanted you to act like a friend"...which I fully admit was true, but dishonest in that it wasn't the whole truth. I did feel he was not treating me as a friend should (by constantly asking me for favours, and then forgetting my existence, etc), but of course I had other feelings involved as well. The next day I called him and left a message saying I had been under a lot of stress when I texted him (true) and I was sorry if I'd said anything I shouldn't have, also that I hoped we could still be on "good terms." He replied the next day and said he would never have sent texts like that to someone he considered a friend...but let's just move on. I wanted to just move on, but I felt shaken and hurt and just didn't want to be around him at all. At least I had managed to say "sorry if I said something I shouldn't", but he didn't even manage to say "sorry if I've managed to hurt your feelings." So I avoided him almost completely for 3 months. He deserves credit for making some overtures, by the way. For whatever reason, he still wanted me in his life. But I certainly didn't harp on the situation. The conversation where he apologised to me was the first thing we'd had in months beyond very brief exchanges, and I "led him to it" by asking if he understood why I'd been upset, and then explaining. I don't think that counts as forcing an apology. Actually, it's pretty clear he would have been happy with us just going back to being friends without discussing what had happened, but for me it was just too much of an elephant in the room. And I should also mention that since we cleared the air in this way - about nine or ten months ago, I think - I haven't brought it up once in any way. I don't think I was holding it against him - until he started acting like this again, seeking me out repeatedly, and then vanishing. Understandably, I think, I'm having flashbacks to what happened last year.

    I know the saving it up and then blowing up thing is not healthy, sensible or constructive, but I guess it's a bit of an INFJ thing. Not that it's a great excuse, but it is something that's happened to me a few times in my life...only a few times. It happens after I've given someone the benefit of the doubt for a long, long time and they keep letting me down - the anger has a way of building up and then erupting. You're going to say it's not his fault that I like him more than he likes me. Fair enough, that's true. But I don't feel that excuses the hot and cold friendship style or the inconsistency. I'd like to point out that he initiated the intense level of friendship that we've had, albeit intermittently. I don't have friends of either gender who I text almost every day for weeks, often affectionate texts, at length, etc...and then disappear completely. I don't think that's fair on anyone. I didn't initiate the frequent intense conversations that we had particularly when we first knew each other (partly because he didn't know as many people in this city then and I was around and available for chats, I think), and I haven't forced him to bare his feelings.

  4. #14
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Ok fine. You know the situation far better than I do. I take it all back. Good luck and hope it works out.

  5. #15
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I guess I do know the situation better than you, but I'm not sure why you're obviously irritated with me?

  6. #16
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I'm not irritated with you in the least. I don't get why you think it's "obvious".

    I am sincere when speaking to you, but I think that you keep making excuses to paint yourself and your intentions in the best light. I don't want to shine truth in your eyes, if you are not ready to accept it. I said that I don't want to hurt your feelings, so I'd rather just keep my mouth shut. You will tell me that I just don't understand. Even though I've told you I've been in his exact position more than once. But I see that anyone who pats you on the back is obviously understanding of you. So I'm deducing that you would rather be comforted than advised, so I withdrew because I'm not sure how to be comforting. It's not my strong point. But there is no irritation at all on my behalf.

  7. #17
    Member Nyota's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I'm not irritated with you in the least. I don't get why you think it's "obvious".

    I am sincere when speaking to you, but I think that you keep making excuses to paint yourself and your intentions in the best light. I don't want to shine truth in your eyes, if you are not ready to accept it. I said that I don't want to hurt your feelings, so I'd rather just keep my mouth shut. You will tell me that I just don't understand. Even though I've told you I've been in his exact position more than once. But I see that anyone who pats you on the back is obviously understanding of you. So I'm deducing that you would rather be comforted than advised, so I withdrew because I'm not sure how to be comforting. It's not my strong point. But there is no irritation at all on my behalf.
    Advice is good, but only if the person knows that it actually applies to them. If silkroad thinks its not applicable, how can you say it is? You have not, in fact, been in the "exact position" as you are not her... do not mislead yourself.
    INFj. 4w5.
    Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another, 'What! You too? I thought I was the only one!'
    --C.S. Lewis

  8. #18
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Which is why I withdrew in the first place. See above. But thanks for the verbal bitchslap.

  9. #19
    Member Nyota's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Which is why I withdrew in the first place. See above. But thanks for the verbal bitchslap.
    Ahhhh! Where's all the love gone? Just trying to make things right...oh....my infj dislike of conflict is showing. Please know I didn't mean to "bitchslap" you... just trying to resolve the 'arguement'. Can we still be friends?
    INFj. 4w5.
    Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another, 'What! You too? I thought I was the only one!'
    --C.S. Lewis

  10. #20
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyota View Post
    Ahhhh! Where's all the love gone? Just trying to make things right...oh....my infj dislike of conflict is showing. Please know I didn't mean to "bitchslap" you... just trying to resolve the 'arguement'. Can we still be friends?
    No harm, no foul. You see things one way and I see them another. There is no argument as far as I can see. I've been in very similar situations as that guy (I won't use the word exact anymore, my bad) and I was just trying to give her another perspective. But I am out of my element here... I'll just go back and play in the NT forum. Seriously, no offense taken and none given. I promise. Friends? Yes.

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