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  1. #11
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    let yourself make mistakes. realize that the extraverted judging categories you will use, Fe and Te, need to be placed on yourself as well. when you do this and give yourself the benefit of the doubt, cut yourself some slack, you will become a million times better at getting accurate extroverted in-the-moment information (you will practice detecting what is real (to others!!!!!) and what is not). you will read the signs better that your brain is made to use efficiently and effectively. practice makes perfect. the underlying reasons for undeveloped Fe in many infjs are often a single terrible tautology. just extroverting answers many of them, they just dissolve and go away. your sense of self becomes more stable with extroversion, you clarify what you could not see before. there are plusses and minuses to being more wildly skewed in one direction, and for many people it is a viable way to live. Fe helps balance and clarify the actual values that can be enacted in-the-world. the one that exists. with that said, total introversion creates unabombers and kafkan dreams. shrug. i think we all (highly introverted types) have a strange fascintation with autistics and schizophrenics. the most liberating feeling in the world for me is to think not of what a mind/life/body is for, but to think what it is CAPABLE of. let yourself negotiate your values as you need to, at hte pace you need to, but hopefully these cognitive tools we are sharing on this site and the feedback we give helps (esp with implementation).

  2. #12
    Badoom~ Skyward's Avatar
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    A thought I got from reading is that when I extrovert I am forced to define my values unlike when I introvert and can just look at values as amorphous --(Probably the difference between Fi users and Fe users? Fi is more rigidly valued since it is reinforced when alone)-- and am very wishwashy with them.

    Maybe Fe for me as an introvert is more of a way of gently placing myself, and people that I want to help, into the situations I feel are best (Ni). This seems to be a general xNFJ tactic, albeit ENFJs seem to do more pushing than meditating than INFJs who do more meditating than pushing.

    I'm not used to making mistakes, at least, mistakes that I didn't already calculate consciously. I don't like bad surprises, then I have to take a step back, if possible, and reset the train of thought.
    'Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.' - Marilyn Monroe

    This is who I am, escapist, paradise-seeker.
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    Anthropology Major out of Hamline University. St. Paul, Minnesota.

  3. #13
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    *if any of this sounds somewhat "circular," it's meant to. pardon the occasional redundancy that may come with it at times.



    Hmm. Far as I know.. Ni is associated w/the ability to recognize patterns/processes spread out through time. We see the abstract, underlying relationships between people, events, etc.. all the intangible stimuli; those invisible extension cords linking the more obvious causes/effects together. We follow the cords, make these connections, and that light bulb [epiphany, "aha!" moment] switches on, and we're able gain a sense of a theoretical whole, the multidimensional Big Picture, past/present/potentials in the future. Through Ni's scope, we naturally view various situations at several angles simultaneously, & generate/anticipate an array of possibilities/solutions/outcomes, in a broad context.

    This function does, indeed, make us fundamentally future-oriented, & we tend to place our focus on idealistic goals, & are thus readily open to learning, problem-solving, etc to grow & meet these goals. [and, through the Ni/Fe dynamic, we're not only equipped with the ability to see the overall needs/values/longterm goals of the people around us, but we're also capable of assisting them with overcoming present obstacles so that their future aspirations are realized.] Through Ni we can "see the forest for the trees," and find the paths through, and forge new ones. Combined with Fe we can transform into the compass that guides others out of the woods as well. (yay! we're like.. superheroes! )

    Now with Fe comes our inborn desire to harmonize with/understand others.. [which, to me, seems most compatible/fully utilized with introverted intuiting as a natural means of taking in data. Like I said.. Ni's all about the invisible connections - so what better means is there to connect with your fellow human than to be that person who "actually gets" them on some deeper emotional level..]

    A lot of INFJs [myself included] seem to become a surrogate 'best friend' for many people, in a sense. Rather, we tend to become the person everyone approaches to vent/resolve issues with their 'actual' best friends. Or we'll be that friend who the theoretical types, or the crackpot inventor-types call at 3am to freely bounce their latest ideas off of. It's the genuine interest & sincerity that we connote, through our depth of empathy, understanding of the inner mind, and eagerness to listen/learn, that often places us in an implicit position of trust and safety for a lot of the people we regularly interact with.

    Extraverted feeling is all about considering others and responding to them, adjusting our behaviors, tweaking some wires, to establish/maintain/improve our desired connections. To smoothly bridge these networks, people with the Ni/Fe dynamic can objectively observe behaviors, expressions of feeling, and intuit internal motivations of specific people, and find the links within relationships/social groups. I've found the best way to understanding social conventions, etc, is to listen, watch, and ask general questions that come to mind when I'm trying to read situations. Sometimes asking a lot of direct questions can make people of certain temperaments uncomfortable, overwhelmed, or even defensive & hostile, so I often start out by offering some sort of self-disclosure- feelings, past experiences, ideas, or I'll say that I'm not familiar with that topic/or I'm confused. Maybe laugh at myself a little [self-deprecating humor does have its uses, case in point].

    "I" statements seem to grease the relating wheels; make others more comfortable with expressing their thoughts/emotions, which in turn, is more input for us to take in and analyze, and ultimately gain the insight we're looking for. It's sort of emotional chess. Or a barter system for ideas. Give n' take. Finding that balance aids in maintaining a consistent connection, harmony, etc.



    I can see how a repressed Fe may blur the scope of Ni and thus make social navigation difficult. Ni/Fe is sort of a double-edged sword. With all the possibilites, comes that underlying awareness of perhaps the more unpleasant potential consequences of various interactions/situations. This is why, I, at least, tend to be a guarded person. Again, there's the issue of finding and maintaining a balance. Awareness of dangers should not simply = living in fear, locked up inside yourself. Because, unfortunately, when we do this, we fail to keep up our end of the social give & take. As a result, we receive less input from others, fail to gain new insights, and ultimately fail to grow in some very integral ways. And.. without growth.. life stagnates.


    I have this immense reservoir of feeling, internally. It's a great ocean, some places even I've yet to explore [i just hope there are cool, freakish glow-in-the-dark creatures hanging out there! Or.. Cthulhu... or something. Uhm.. Anyway. :rolli:]. It's all held behind an external levee. Simple self preservation. The desire to share this depth, and the awareness of the consequences of floods are at costant war in my head. I've managed to find some balance over the yrs. The idea of self-disclosure, or just asking questions used to seem incredibly daunting, intimidating. Impossible. I've learned some of the delicate subtleties of mental/emotional bartering in recent years. Any information I volunteer to others is incredibly selective, though it rarely seems so to the outside observer. I take calculated risks. I have taken the time to try to understand myself as much as possible, and be aware of my own needs, etc, and read a lot about psychology/sociology & other sciences, to try to generally understand people more; clear the the smudges my own repressed Fe has left on lens of my Ni. Also reading about MBTI, and working around in my head, trying to type people I know, has helped me a lot in comprehending all the angles of social networks. Seeing the patterns and links between various types, interests, values, has helped me to anticipate the emotional responses of others, as well as their unexpressed needs, etc, which in turn helps me adjust how I approach topics with them to ensure a clear signal, a reliable connection.


    I still have a ways to go. I'm emotionally repressed in some ways. I'm able to help out a lot of other people, guide them toward the direction of growth, but because my levee walls are a tad too thick, and a little too high [and guarded by trained snow leopards.. invisible lasers, and snipers in some undisclosed locations]... I often fail to reach the depth of connection I'm looking for. To be the closest confidant of everyone's best friend, and never truly feel as close on my end, can be overwhelming sometimes, the most profound sense of lonely. A lot of it comes down to some self value issues I've needed to acknowledge, and work through. The repressed Fe, fear & excessive barriers are just symptomatic of that issue. Developing my tertiary function [Ti], I believe, has aided in giving me the perspective and tools to step back and understand myself better, and use this critical thinking & reasoning to come to and apply more effective solutions. Things have been improving; it's a slow process, but I know I'm going in the right direction. It's the baby steps, the calculated risks. I am patient. And looking forward.


    hopefully this was of some use to you... sheesh this got long.. how the heck do i do these things.
    It made me cry, thrice. I liked the part with the sword fights lots.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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    ... In theory.

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    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #14
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    *if any of this sounds somewhat "circular," it's meant to. pardon the occasional redundancy that may come with it at times.



    Hmm. Far as I know.. Ni is associated w/the ability to recognize patterns/processes spread out through time. We see the abstract, underlying relationships between people, events, etc.. all the intangible stimuli; those invisible extension cords linking the more obvious causes/effects together. We follow the cords, make these connections, and that light bulb [epiphany, "aha!" moment] switches on, and we're able gain a sense of a theoretical whole, the multidimensional Big Picture, past/present/potentials in the future. Through Ni's scope, we naturally view various situations at several angles simultaneously, & generate/anticipate an array of possibilities/solutions/outcomes, in a broad context.

    This function does, indeed, make us fundamentally future-oriented, & we tend to place our focus on idealistic goals, & are thus readily open to learning, problem-solving, etc to grow & meet these goals. [and, through the Ni/Fe dynamic, we're not only equipped with the ability to see the overall needs/values/longterm goals of the people around us, but we're also capable of assisting them with overcoming present obstacles so that their future aspirations are realized.] Through Ni we can "see the forest for the trees," and find the paths through, and forge new ones. Combined with Fe we can transform into the compass that guides others out of the woods as well. (yay! we're like.. superheroes! )

    Now with Fe comes our inborn desire to harmonize with/understand others.. [which, to me, seems most compatible/fully utilized with introverted intuiting as a natural means of taking in data. Like I said.. Ni's all about the invisible connections - so what better means is there to connect with your fellow human than to be that person who "actually gets" them on some deeper emotional level..]

    A lot of INFJs [myself included] seem to become a surrogate 'best friend' for many people, in a sense. Rather, we tend to become the person everyone approaches to vent/resolve issues with their 'actual' best friends. Or we'll be that friend who the theoretical types, or the crackpot inventor-types call at 3am to freely bounce their latest ideas off of. It's the genuine interest & sincerity that we connote, through our depth of empathy, understanding of the inner mind, and eagerness to listen/learn, that often places us in an implicit position of trust and safety for a lot of the people we regularly interact with.

    Extraverted feeling is all about considering others and responding to them, adjusting our behaviors, tweaking some wires, to establish/maintain/improve our desired connections. To smoothly bridge these networks, people with the Ni/Fe dynamic can objectively observe behaviors, expressions of feeling, and intuit internal motivations of specific people, and find the links within relationships/social groups. I've found the best way to understanding social conventions, etc, is to listen, watch, and ask general questions that come to mind when I'm trying to read situations. Sometimes asking a lot of direct questions can make people of certain temperaments uncomfortable, overwhelmed, or even defensive & hostile, so I often start out by offering some sort of self-disclosure- feelings, past experiences, ideas, or I'll say that I'm not familiar with that topic/or I'm confused. Maybe laugh at myself a little [self-deprecating humor does have its uses, case in point].

    "I" statements seem to grease the relating wheels; make others more comfortable with expressing their thoughts/emotions, which in turn, is more input for us to take in and analyze, and ultimately gain the insight we're looking for. It's sort of emotional chess. Or a barter system for ideas. Give n' take. Finding that balance aids in maintaining a consistent connection, harmony, etc.



    I can see how a repressed Fe may blur the scope of Ni and thus make social navigation difficult. Ni/Fe is sort of a double-edged sword. With all the possibilites, comes that underlying awareness of perhaps the more unpleasant potential consequences of various interactions/situations. This is why, I, at least, tend to be a guarded person. Again, there's the issue of finding and maintaining a balance. Awareness of dangers should not simply = living in fear, locked up inside yourself. Because, unfortunately, when we do this, we fail to keep up our end of the social give & take. As a result, we receive less input from others, fail to gain new insights, and ultimately fail to grow in some very integral ways. And.. without growth.. life stagnates.


    I have this immense reservoir of feeling, internally. It's a great ocean, some places even I've yet to explore [i just hope there are cool, freakish glow-in-the-dark creatures hanging out there! Or.. Cthulhu... or something. Uhm.. Anyway. :rolli:]. It's all held behind an external levee. Simple self preservation. The desire to share this depth, and the awareness of the consequences of floods are at costant war in my head. I've managed to find some balance over the yrs. The idea of self-disclosure, or just asking questions used to seem incredibly daunting, intimidating. Impossible. I've learned some of the delicate subtleties of mental/emotional bartering in recent years. Any information I volunteer to others is incredibly selective, though it rarely seems so to the outside observer. I take calculated risks. I have taken the time to try to understand myself as much as possible, and be aware of my own needs, etc, and read a lot about psychology/sociology & other sciences, to try to generally understand people more; clear the the smudges my own repressed Fe has left on lens of my Ni. Also reading about MBTI, and working around in my head, trying to type people I know, has helped me a lot in comprehending all the angles of social networks. Seeing the patterns and links between various types, interests, values, has helped me to anticipate the emotional responses of others, as well as their unexpressed needs, etc, which in turn helps me adjust how I approach topics with them to ensure a clear signal, a reliable connection.


    I still have a ways to go. I'm emotionally repressed in some ways. I'm able to help out a lot of other people, guide them toward the direction of growth, but because my levee walls are a tad too thick, and a little too high [and guarded by trained snow leopards.. invisible lasers, and snipers in some undisclosed locations]... I often fail to reach the depth of connection I'm looking for. To be the closest confidant of everyone's best friend, and never truly feel as close on my end, can be overwhelming sometimes, the most profound sense of lonely. A lot of it comes down to some self value issues I've needed to acknowledge, and work through. The repressed Fe, fear & excessive barriers are just symptomatic of that issue. Developing my tertiary function [Ti], I believe, has aided in giving me the perspective and tools to step back and understand myself better, and use this critical thinking & reasoning to come to and apply more effective solutions. Things have been improving; it's a slow process, but I know I'm going in the right direction. It's the baby steps, the calculated risks. I am patient. And looking forward.


    hopefully this was of some use to you... sheesh this got long.. how the heck do i do these things.
    Most insightful and informative. Like taking a peak into the abyss

  5. #15
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post


    A lot of INFJs [myself included] seem to become a surrogate 'best friend' for many people, in a sense. Rather, we tend to become the person everyone approaches to vent/resolve issues with their 'actual' best friends. [B]Or we'll be that friend who the theoretical types, or the crackpot inventor-types call at 3am to freely bounce their latest ideas off of.
    This resonates.

    It's the genuine interest & sincerity that we connote, through our depth of empathy, understanding of the inner mind, and eagerness to listen/learn, that often places us in an implicit position of trust and safety for a lot of the people we regularly interact with.

    Extraverted feeling is all about considering others and responding to them, adjusting our behaviors, tweaking some wires, to establish/maintain/improve our desired connections. To smoothly bridge these networks, people with the Ni/Fe dynamic can objectively observe behaviors, expressions of feeling, and intuit internal motivations of specific people, and find the links within relationships/social groups. I've found the best way to understanding social conventions, etc, is to listen, watch, and ask general questions that come to mind when I'm trying to read situations. Sometimes asking a lot of direct questions can make people of certain temperaments uncomfortable, overwhelmed, or even defensive & hostile, so I often start out by offering some sort of self-disclosure- feelings, past experiences, ideas, or I'll say that I'm not familiar with that topic/or I'm confused. Maybe laugh at myself a little [self-deprecating humor does have its uses, case in point].
    A great description!
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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