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  1. #181
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    For the original questions of where INFJs are found:

    Anywhere they can observe people and decide whether they wish to/feel safe to interact or not, while having a solitary activity close at hand for back up. (Coffee shop while reading or grading papers, library etc.) Generally they like being around people, but they would like to decide in what way and for how long. A party is no good unless they are reasonably sure they will feel comfortable with, welcomed by and interested in enough people to enjoy it (you can't just read if you get bored and it is awkward to leave right after arriving). Sports are okay, but they tend to like the kind where they won't let anyone down if they mess up (badminton, tennis etc, rather than volleyball). Musical events are a good place to observe people, but which one can seem busy in their own world if preferred.

    Also anywhere that will allow them to participate in something they believe in, but with an element of autonomy. That is why many are teachers or counsellors. While being cooperative, they also have a specific idea of how they like things to turn out, so most don't love commitees unless they have some control over the outcome and just have people they trust to delegate work to.

    As for shyness with other people, I don't think it is exactly shyness. There are a couple of elements at work. One is a hypersensitivity to people's reactions which makes them very sensitive to other people seeming busy, impatient, disinterested etc. Often they err on the side of mistaking other's insecurities as dislike or disinterest and quit any attempts at closeness at the first glimmer of unreceptivity. They need to be sure they are welcome before they advance or else they need to perceive the other person as being less confident or comfortable, which puts them at ease to approach because they would be helping.

    That hypersensitivity extends to the world of ideas so that if there does not seem to be receptivity, they go no further with expressing what matters to them. You only are allowed into the inner chambers of their heart if you have been respectful of the other rooms you have been allowed into along the way.

    Many people mistakenly believe that they share the same views simply because the INFJ will not directly disagree or probe into expressed opposite views because they do not want to cause distress to the other person. If the other person were to directly ask though for the INFJ's opinion or belief about something, they would be more than ready to share it. They are good at empathizing and so they also do not dismiss the other's point of view as easily as some types will. They make other people feel understood and so people tend to talk about their own problems and opinions without getting around to asking about the INFJ's. The infj doesn't realize that others often do not take rejection of their opinion or views as a personal rejection and sometimes even try on other views to see how they hold up when discussed! Debating just for sport is often taken very personally, although debating a truly held belief is okay.

    For activities, they want to observe until they are sure that they would not cause themselves public embarrassment by participating. They want to feel some level of competence before exposing themselves to other's comments or opinions (remember that E comments often do not get run through an internal filter first).

    The other reason they may seem shy is that there are very few people that they really connect with. They can, but don't enjoy extended periods of small talk, don't have much to say to a large group of people, and want to discuss ideas with someone who is interesting to them and shows some interest in their ideas as well. This greatly limits the pool of people they look forward to interacting with, even though they do like people.

    Sometimes they are busy observing as well as overanalyzing what they should say or do (they have an excess of internal filters), which comes across as being judgmental. It is more like figuring out what category to file people in so they know how to interact. They are more than happy to refile people in a different folder or even filing cabinet if new information comes to light. This filing system helps them decide what the person would like to talk about, how they would likely react, what information could be shared with them, and what sort of relationship could ensue.

    I cannot speak for all INFJs, but this has been my experience. Much of what I have found from reading and talking to other INFJs seems to reinforce this. I think this is why I find people without as many filters to make them
    (over?)cautious kind of interesting.

    Wow, that is me to a T! Agree with everything.

  2. #182
    Circus Maximus Sarcasticus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    For the original questions of where INFJs are found:

    <snip>
    Wow great post fidelia-- and only your 5th one. You hit the ground running don't you

  3. #183
    lurking.... Wyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    As for shyness with other people, I don't think it is exactly shyness. There are a couple of elements at work. One is a hypersensitivity to people's reactions which makes them very sensitive to other people seeming busy, impatient, disinterested etc. Often they err on the side of mistaking other's insecurities as dislike or disinterest and quit any attempts at closeness at the first glimmer of unreceptivity. They need to be sure they are welcome before they advance or else they need to perceive the other person as being less confident or comfortable, which puts them at ease to approach because they would be helping.
    Totally agree.

    Sometimes they are busy observing as well as overanalyzing what they should say or do (they have an excess of internal filters), which comes across as being judgmental.
    I agree here too. But it's not a problem for being seen as judgemental - I see this quirk in me as an extension of my shyness. If the interest in listening to what I want/have to say isn't present in the other party, I'll think long and hard before I speak my mind. And even then, it'll be the bare minimum.

  4. #184
    nevermore lane777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    For the original questions of where INFJs are found:

    Anywhere they can observe people and decide whether they wish to/feel safe to interact or not, while having a solitary activity close at hand for back up. (Coffee shop while reading or grading papers, library etc.) Generally they like being around people, but they would like to decide in what way and for how long. A party is no good unless they are reasonably sure they will feel comfortable with, welcomed by and interested in enough people to enjoy it (you can't just read if you get bored and it is awkward to leave right after arriving). Sports are okay, but they tend to like the kind where they won't let anyone down if they mess up (badminton, tennis etc, rather than volleyball). Musical events are a good place to observe people, but which one can seem busy in their own world if preferred.

    Also anywhere that will allow them to participate in something they believe in, but with an element of autonomy. That is why many are teachers or counsellors. While being cooperative, they also have a specific idea of how they like things to turn out, so most don't love commitees unless they have some control over the outcome and just have people they trust to delegate work to.

    As for shyness with other people, I don't think it is exactly shyness. There are a couple of elements at work. One is a hypersensitivity to people's reactions which makes them very sensitive to other people seeming busy, impatient, disinterested etc. Often they err on the side of mistaking other's insecurities as dislike or disinterest and quit any attempts at closeness at the first glimmer of unreceptivity. They need to be sure they are welcome before they advance or else they need to perceive the other person as being less confident or comfortable, which puts them at ease to approach because they would be helping.

    That hypersensitivity extends to the world of ideas so that if there does not seem to be receptivity, they go no further with expressing what matters to them. You only are allowed into the inner chambers of their heart if you have been respectful of the other rooms you have been allowed into along the way.

    Many people mistakenly believe that they share the same views simply because the INFJ will not directly disagree or probe into expressed opposite views because they do not want to cause distress to the other person. If the other person were to directly ask though for the INFJ's opinion or belief about something, they would be more than ready to share it. They are good at empathizing and so they also do not dismiss the other's point of view as easily as some types will. They make other people feel understood and so people tend to talk about their own problems and opinions without getting around to asking about the INFJ's. The infj doesn't realize that others often do not take rejection of their opinion or views as a personal rejection and sometimes even try on other views to see how they hold up when discussed! Debating just for sport is often taken very personally, although debating a truly held belief is okay.

    For activities, they want to observe until they are sure that they would not cause themselves public embarrassment by participating. They want to feel some level of competence before exposing themselves to other's comments or opinions (remember that E comments often do not get run through an internal filter first).

    The other reason they may seem shy is that there are very few people that they really connect with. They can, but don't enjoy extended periods of small talk, don't have much to say to a large group of people, and want to discuss ideas with someone who is interesting to them and shows some interest in their ideas as well. This greatly limits the pool of people they look forward to interacting with, even though they do like people.

    Sometimes they are busy observing as well as overanalyzing what they should say or do (they have an excess of internal filters), which comes across as being judgmental. It is more like figuring out what category to file people in so they know how to interact. They are more than happy to refile people in a different folder or even filing cabinet if new information comes to light. This filing system helps them decide what the person would like to talk about, how they would likely react, what information could be shared with them, and what sort of relationship could ensue.

    I cannot speak for all INFJs, but this has been my experience. Much of what I have found from reading and talking to other INFJs seems to reinforce this. I think this is why I find people without as many filters to make them
    (over?)cautious kind of interesting.
    I feel exposed. *shudders* But also, understood. So I forgive you.
    To die would be an awfully big adventure - Peter Pan

    INFJ ~ 4w5 sp/sx ~ RLOAI ~ Inclusion e/w=1/0 (Melancholy Compulsive) Control: e/w=0/6 (Supine) Affection: e/w=4/0 (Phlegmatic Melancholy)

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGun2112 View Post
    Where to find an INFJ?
    At home. Their home, to be exact.

  6. #186
    Senior Member hokie912's Avatar
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    I can't find a thing to disagree with in fidelia's post. That describes my social interactions and motivations exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Yeah, kind of the same with me. Although for me it's that I pick up on everything the person says/does, and build a composite, or something, and already recognize certain traits that probably wouldn't work in the long run, or that aren't really what I'm wanting in the long term. But a part of me doesn't think it's 'fair' that I write someone off like that after just one date (and I know the guys wouldn't even get it anyway, if I did, since we may have had great conversation throughout the date), so I'll go on a few more, or several more, only to have my suspicions confirmed down the road...or rather, maybe it's that I'm trying to force my heart into something it's not into - trying to rationalize it. So the 'trying it out'/rationalizing thing tends to be futile, and the fact that I'm rationalizing at all doesn't bode well, and always ends up being a bad sign. If my intuition/feelings aren't on board, I can't say they ever get on board.

    Finally, I may just try things even though I don't feel it because I so rarely meet anyone that I'm really drawn to, on all levels, so I start thinking I'm being too picky and/or am totally clueless and inept at dating in general (which I think I am). I start thinking I'm doing something wrong and then might try it out with someone I'm not completely enamored with. Not that that ever works either. It ends up feeling false.
    I experienced almost the exact situation described here with someone recently. I had slight misgivings from the start but wanted to give him a chance, so we went out a few times. He was nice and we conversed well and were compatible on a fairly superficial level, but it became increasingly clear that he just didn't get where I was coming from. And thought that he did, which was the worst part. If we liked the same things, it was for different reasons and there wasn't much depth to the conversation. I probably should have gone with my instincts, but it seems unfair to write someone off without giving it a chance. We corresponded long-distance for a month or so, but it became almost a chore for me to respond to his emails. That was when I decided that the "feeling it out" stage was over.

    I have yet to have the experience of connecting with someone from the start romantically, but it seems illogical to pass up all dating opportunities waiting for that. And yet INFJ instincts seem pretty strong in terms of recognizing a kindred spirit, so...hmm. I really dislike the awkwardness of dating, so it's a challenge to put myself out there "just in case."

  7. #187
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lane777 View Post
    What do you mean by the bolded? Could you expound?

    To everything else you said... once again, I strongly relate. You're starting to wig me out, actually
    haha...sorry about wigging you out.

    As for the bolded...what I mean by my thinking I'm totally clueless and inept at dating is that I think the way dating is 'supposed' to work, or the way most people seem to approach it, is to take things day by day, in stride, be more lowkey and less serious about all of it, at least initially. I think that's how it works, as a social/cultural thing. But I cannot seem to operate that way - the whole 'let's have fun'/ 'let's be mellow'/'let's see where this takes us' approach is not natural to me -- because I DO approach the dating thing rather seriously. It's not even like I'm uber-serious on my dates, because I'm able to joke around and present a more mellow demeanor, and can get along pretty well, at least on the surface, with most people. The thing is, is that I've only had a few 'BAD' dates - most guys I go out with would probably think the date went really well, as I can keep the conversation going reasonably well and like to get to know people, and probably put the guys at ease. But the entire time I'm analyzing the potential, and even if the date, by definition, might go fine, I might have zero interest in them as a longterm partner...and that goes for beyond the first date, too.

    I'm always looking more longterm, and dating just seems to be all about the short term and being in the moment. I cannot 'just have fun'. It has to have a lot more to it than that. I guess I just don't see a point in dating anyone or being in a relationship of any sort if I don't see a really longterm possibility. How does one date and get to know someone, and try to enjoy the moment, without projecting too far ahead (which is what dating is really all about), when one cannot easily do that and one naturally looks longterm? It's a conundrum..which is why I say I am inept at it. I just seem to approach all of it very differently from most people, and end up feeling like an uptight, serious stick in the mud. Or something.

    (but my usual qualification - on the maybe 3 times in my life that I've met people who I've instantaneously gotten a great vibe from, and KNEW I wanted to pursue, without question, a lot of this was a non-issue, and if anything I was the opposite, and I fell head over heels far too soon.)
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  8. #188
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    Generally, I sit in a corner with my back facing the wall.

  9. #189
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDoe View Post
    I think INFJ's get more aggressive as they get to know you... we have to know that your not a horrible person whos out to stab us in the heart
    I can be down right critical and pushy if I gauged that it wouldn't result in negative consequences.

    Regarding to Casca's (aside: why the name change?) remark. I'm also the same way when it comes to relationships. The reluctance to "take things slow and see how it goes". It's as if I use a threshold. Rather extreme, but I feel that it'll either work or not work. And if it doesn't feel like it'll work out, I'd rather cut it off right off the bat. I dislike wasting time and energy... especially since I tend to invest so much in a relationship. To invest into it and then have to withdraw from it hurts too much. It's self protection really.
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  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDoe View Post
    I think INFJ's get more aggressive as they get to know you... we have to know that your not a horrible person whos out to stab us in the heart
    This is very true. I've shocked some men with how aggressive I can be once I'm comfortable.

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