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  1. #1
    Junior Member thejames's Avatar
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    Default Help! INFP problems with ENFJ

    This is going to be kind of lengthy, but please read through it if you can.

    I could definitely use some helpful advice.



    It is supposedly natural for the ENFJ - INFP relationship to flourish (according to personalitypage.com, these relationship types are even best for marriage).


    Now,

    Being an INFP, I sometimes have difficulty verbalizing my thoughts in a concise, organized manner. I'm much better with some ink in my hand and a sheet of paper underneath.

    Simply put, we INFPs spend a considerable amount of time inwardly managing our intense, dreamy thoughts -- so in social situations, surfacing such monstrosities takes a great deal of effort if we are to do so concisely.


    Concisely -- the way Js like information handed to them.


    So with my ENFJ friends, I often get cut off and judged too quickly, before I even get a chance to explain my complete thoughts. The INFP cannot be accurately judged or figured out too quickly, yet the ENFJ does this and then follows up like they're suddenly best friends with you.

    This aggravates me, and I almost suspect ENFJs of being fakes.

    They seem to go around making quick judgments of everyone based upon strong extroverted feelings, and even confront the people they bitch about with the same "best friend" attitude. How do I know they aren't bitching behind my back when they aren't acting like my best friend? Do ENFJs just feel that they need to be liked by everyone they meet? If so, that seems really shallow.


    I care about my ENFJ friends, but on the flipside, the "me" they care about probably doesn't even exist. The "me" they know is just a scapegoat they created to leach good feelings off. Frustrating to no end.

    And now, I'm falling for an ENFJ girl, and I have no idea why. I'm so attracted yet so frustrated at the same time.



    If anyone has any insight, please share.

    Especially ENFJs and INFPs who have had relationships with ENFJs.

  2. #2
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    enfjs believe in getting people do favors, adhere to manners, and looking good while doing 1 and 2. The problem is that I want to be in control, but can't truly have it with them around. Lose-lose.

    Myself has been a pretty solid match for me in my 23 years so far. At least I know he's the same zodiac animal.

  3. #3
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    > How do I know they aren't bitching behind my back when they aren't acting like my best friend?
    if you get in an enfj's inner circle, probably not a problem. in my case, i feel it is necessary that i accept their behavior for what it is. it doesn't need to be construed as a bad thing and you shouldn't base your understanding on them through reading type descriptions.

    a few years ago, i had a close female enfj friend and her behavior would make me feel jealous and perhaps resentful that she would give similar 'treatment' to everybody else. eventually i could and did accept her for who she was and looked at my own jealous feelings as something that were harmful to me and the relationship/friendship/whatever.

    > Do ENFJs just feel that they need to be liked by everyone they meet?
    they like to maintain a kind of general harmoniousness in social settings and are often likable people. their goal isn't to be "liked" by everyone.

    > I care about my ENFJ friends, but on the flipside, the "me" they care about probably doesn't even exist.
    i feel like that's an unfair leap against your your enfj friends.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Jonathanthegreat's Avatar
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    Just be patient and stick to your values. Also be sure to state them clearly, in a non-arrogant way and STICK to them. Because if you do, she'll admire you. Because you're a man of your word. Also, never fear a girl you like it will only do you harm. Enfj girls are awesome but can be a little crazy. GREAT lovers though, very caring/nuturing. IF they aren't already screwed up. haha

  5. #5
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    I agree with you FC. These threads about people not being able to deal with Fe-dominants or not understanding how they communicate are quite curious to me. For the simple reason that so many people into typology believe that all Fe amounts to is social obligation and harmony it seems like it's a simple set of "rules" to follow to get along with a ENFJ or ESFJ. But it seems not to be the case. Could it be Fe is more than what people think it is? I can honestly say I come into contact with dozens of FJs on a weekly basis and I don't often have these problems people have. I totally have experienced the nightmare Fe stories, but they haven't occurred in greater frequency than any other function, if we want to single it out like that. Of course, I'm an FJ myself so they're not doing anything weird to me. I think it's because I recognize this aspect of Fe:

    Quote Originally Posted by file cabinet View Post
    > How do I know they aren't bitching behind my back when they aren't acting like my best friend?
    if you get in an enfj's inner circle, probably not a problem. in my case, i feel it is necessary that i accept their behavior for what it is. it doesn't need to be construed as a bad thing and you shouldn't base your understanding on them through reading type descriptions.
    as exactly what it appears to be without accusing it of being fake. I really shouldn't let what people say on this forum affect how I interact with people in my real life, but sometimes I've become self-conscious just joking or engaging in friendly banter with people for fear of thinking I'm misleading them somehow. I feel like engaging with people who I only want to get deep down in it is such an insular existence. I don't personally go around thinking just cause someone is consistently friendly with me that they're my friend or we're anything more than acquaintances.

    And sometimes I think that people who expect that, who have the attitude "I thought you were being gregarious with me because we had something" are unreasonable and selfish people. Who the eff are you? Do you have a bridge in Brooklyn you're trying to sell? Maybe I'm an attention whore, not in the sense that I want a lot of attention but in the sense that I give a lot of attention to people. *shrug*

    I think that if you're special or different to an ENFJ they will make a clear distinction between you and everyone else. There will be a little extra oomph to the transactions between you and them. But the thing is, people interpret this differentness-- the fact they they do like you a little bit more as clinginess and neediness. In my mind, the more I go to you IS a signal that you're not like everyone else, that you HAVE become incorporated in my little constellation of stars. If you receive little IMs or texts from me it's my way of relating to you, that I don't do this to everyone else, this is how you're different. I think instead of concentrating on the ENFJ does this with everyone else, look for things that occur between the two of you that don't occur with everyone else.

    And I'm saying this from a general Fe-dom perspective and not specifically ENFJ.

    Do ENFJs just feel that they need to be liked by everyone they meet? If so, that seems really shallow.
    Once again, from a general Fe-dom perspective, I don't realistically expect to be loved and admired by all. Maybe it appears that way to others? I know that generally I like to have casual/comfy/informal relationships with my colleagues at work and that's something I actively do because I value my professional image and I don't want my character and work efforts to be tarnished by bad professional relationships. I've asked people to do stuff for me that got done within 15 minutes while others have made the same request and it's taken weeks. I don't want to be actively disliked either. Ideal preference is for most people not to draw a blank when they hear my name and the general reaction to be "Oh, OK I know her! " I don't want to be unknown or ignored; I at least want people to know who I am. I make the effort to open a pathway between me and another person so that effort may come across as needing to be liked.

    So perhaps that does come across as needing to be liked by everyone, but internally I don't feel like that's a goal of mine, it's a matter of being efficient in my dealings with people.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  6. #6
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejames View Post

    \\


    So with my ENFJ friends, I often get cut off and judged too quickly, before I even get a chance to explain my complete thoughts. The INFP cannot be accurately judged or figured out too quickly, yet the ENFJ does this and then follows up like they're suddenly best friends with you.
    My room mate does this, and I try to provide an alternate possibility, it's preposterous. Like everyone has the same motives as her, and I'm like you can't know this much about the other person, as much as you think you do, you can't.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #7
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I agree with Proteanmix on this, however, I would like to add that I've got an INFP male in my social circle and although he is generally well loved and thought of, he has trouble phrasing his words and thoughts in a smooth way, causing others to finish his sentences for him and teasing him a bit with this. I can tell he's sensitive to this, but he's...sorta accepted it, though occasionally you can see it still gets to him. We do not have ENFJS in the group however. So maybe this is just somethign that INFPs are...susceptible to in a group? I catch myself even doing this every now and again with him, though I usually really try and give him the time he needs to formulate his thoughts (it does take forever however). I can totally understand that you guys do get frustrated when someone a) finishes your sentence but maybe not as accurately as they think and then b) judge you for the answer 'they' gave and c) go on like nothing happened.
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  8. #8
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    And sometimes I think that people who expect that, who have the attitude "I thought you were being gregarious with me because we had something" are unreasonable and selfish people. Who the eff are you? Do you have a bridge in Brooklyn you're trying to sell? Maybe I'm an attention whore, not in the sense that I want a lot of attention but in the sense that I give a lot of attention to people. *shrug*
    See, the thing is is that FPs are generally like that (or maybe IFPs). When we are actually bothering to open up emotionally to someone we really care. This is misleading to us when someone isn't doing this. I will honestly only open up to people I like, as for acquaintances they get my "surface face", meaning that they aren't really exposed to certain things that people that I want to connect to are exposed to. We seek to connect to people, and when someone is seemingly doing this by being nice, yeah. You can see where this is going.

    Otherwise, posts pertaining to Fe people are interesting to me, so your post is indeed appreciated I'm sure. I'm seeing a view from "the other side", and even if I can't fully understand it (I can't apply it to myself) I can still acknowledge it.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  9. #9
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    See, the thing is is that FPs are generally like that (or maybe IFPs). When we are actually bothering to open up emotionally to someone we really care. This is misleading to us when someone isn't doing this. I will honestly only open up to people I like, as for acquaintances they get my "surface face", meaning that they aren't really exposed to certain things that people that I want to connect to are exposed to. We seek to connect to people, and when someone is seemingly doing this by being nice, yeah. You can see where this is going.

    Otherwise, posts pertaining to Fe people are interesting to me, so your post is indeed appreciated I'm sure. I'm seeing a view from "the other side", and even if I can't fully understand it (I can't apply it to myself) I can still acknowledge it.
    I understand what you're saying. The difference for me is that I see that "surface face" as the opening move. I guess I realize that while it's not fake, it's not a full representation. That's just the basic assumption I work from just as you work from the opposite assumption. Otherwise, it's like a grace period or when you sign a contract and you have 72 hours to renege. It's not that strict of course, we see if we like each other enough to go any farther and if we're like meh I don't want to do this, it's easy to escape with no hard feelings. I feel like it gives people a way out with the implicit understanding that we were just "being nice." A trial period. Of course, you can fast forward through that. I've really never become close with anyone that way it's always developed over a period of time and then BAM! we just were. I'll typically have a feeling that this person seems like someone I can get to know better. I'm not sure when or how it morphed but it did at some point.

    I've met people and I don't know if they're FPs or not who I felt where getting too personal too fast and I had to quickly figure how to orient myself to them. I think that disorientation was the Fe scrambling to navigate socially. In that sense, yes, the Fe was rule bound in that something in the transaction didn't occur sequentially. I noticed with my INFP boss I think she thinks I'm formal with her even though we've worked with each for nearly three years. I probably am because I don't want our relation to each other to shift because I'm not interested. So I keep that slight formality in place. I never just walk into her office, I always knock and wait for her to invite me in, I only talk about my personal life with her when she says something about her personal life. I never asked who the people in her pictures on her desk are, I didn't ask what the significance of the knickknacks in her office. I don't ask any probing questions about how she liked her vacation or stuff like that. When you're dealing with an FJ you have to learn how to interpret their individual use of Fe, not plaster the idea of Fe as a whole onto that person. It always manifests itself individually and customized through each person.

    Yet another sign if an ExFJ has taken a personal interest in you, what is the type and quality of interest they pay? If they're asking generic questions that never seem to get any more personal then don't think anything of it. Another thing is they may be waiting to see how much initiative you're going to take. If I think I'm barking up the wrong tree, I'll back off. I feel like this could be a general miscommunication issue though. Maybe I should start a thread about how to interpret Fe-speak?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #10
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I agree with Proteanmix on this, however, I would like to add that I've got an INFP male in my social circle and although he is generally well loved and thought of, he has trouble phrasing his words and thoughts in a smooth way, causing others to finish his sentences for him and teasing him a bit with this. I can tell he's sensitive to this, but he's...sorta accepted it, though occasionally you can see it still gets to him. We do not have ENFJS in the group however. So maybe this is just somethign that INFPs are...susceptible to in a group? I catch myself even doing this every now and again with him, though I usually really try and give him the time he needs to formulate his thoughts (it does take forever however). I can totally understand that you guys do get frustrated when someone a) finishes your sentence but maybe not as accurately as they think and then b) judge you for the answer 'they' gave and c) go on like nothing happened.
    I get this problem with most Es, not just ExFJs. Actually, my grandmother and great aunt both give me time to get it out first before jumping on it and I'm darn sure they're both ExFJs (great aunt seems more N, grandma is just more overall understanding).
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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