• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] Why NFs think that they understand NTs ?

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
You're in no position to disagree. You don't know what you are talking about.

Developing a mature Feeling function does not leave one exposed to over-sensitivity to the opinions of others. As I said, it's immature and undesirable. Not all Fs are emo teens, either.


:rolli: As opposed to you who knows everything about F-females, right?
I'm not saying that all F's are emo teens. And I'm not disagreeing with the fact that it oversensitivity is wrong. It's part of the challenges an F faces in her life. Just like a T faces having to deal with the fact that not everyone can be convinced using logic, and they're not always right because they think their logic is correct. Not learning this results in insensitivity towards others and being ostracized. I do think we disagree strongly on what 'oversensitivity' in F-females is though.

I was just curious - it wasn't a judgment.

Because you think that you understand NTs? Surely some NTs are sensitive and others are not. There are a great many more who pretend to be and learn to mimic social cues in order not to be ostracized and judged for being an "abnormal" female...

Just making sure that you didn't take it as an attack. Can't help it, it's a knee-jerk reaction :D

I never claimed I understood NTs. I just have had a lot of conversations with NTs one on one, as I find them intriguing. I'm just sharing the general experiences I've had with them. These are things we've discussed and that they've told me, or that I've remarked to them and they gave me feedback on.
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
I never claimed I understood NTs. I just have had a lot of conversations with NTs one on one, as I find them intriguing. I'm just sharing the general experiences I've had with them. These are things we've discussed and that they've told me, or that I've remarked to them and they gave me feedback on.

That makes sense. We can only go by our own experiences... I am curious to know, however, if the xNTPs felt/behaved the same way as the xNTJs. There's such a huge difference between Fe and Fi. Do you have any insight into this?
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
:rolli: As opposed to you who knows everything about F-females, right?
Nope. One does not imply the other. It's quite difficult to debate with someone who doesn't understand logic.

Wow, just saw this. +10000000000
Yep. Also part-:jew:. If only I was a disabled lesbian, I'd have a full deck!
 

TaylorS

Aspie Idealist
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
365
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
972
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
If someone's words do not represent their ideas, I will notice that because it is relevant information. It's all a matter of degree, but if someone was afraid to tell me they dislike classical music, said they loved it, and I later found out otherwise, my response would be to notice they can create discrepancies in communication. I would also wonder why they struggle to assert their own ideas. I would take their communication with a grain of salt, and possibly tell them directly that I appreciate people with different likes and dislikes than mine and that it is okay to voice those because I want to get to know the real person and I'm pretty laid back about stuff like that. In the future if I wanted to be sure to know their opinion, I would either work harder than merely asking once, or would tell them that I want to know, but that all I can go by is their words and so I will need them to tell me. I'm not sure how much more I could extrapolate than that.

When I hear someone describe how that sort of communication is a deal breaker, I also wonder about their experiences and how they see that, but my conclusion is much like a grey fog. It is quite indistinct and has many possibilities, but without certainty. I guess these things don't trigger a conclusion, but can capture my interest to observe, learn, and eventually make sense of it when it happens in my personal social environment.

As an NF I have hundreds if not thousands of observations in process relating to individuals, group dynamics, and core issues about humanity. Except that it is not a game, it could be compared to playing dozens of chess games simultaneously. I have an overwhelming sense of the complexity and the unimaginable number of nuanced details. There is this sense of respect regarding how difficult it is to make determinations, but the hypothesis and strong hypothesis I create are not the result of a snap idea. If I have any degree of certainty, I have invested a tremendous amount of information gathering and analysis before I create any sense of pattern or make a statement.

edit: I'll compare it to watching the water on a lake. It is dynamic, constantly changed and interacting with the play of light on its surface. The waves are like the individuals acting on one another, but still articulating their individual presence. No one exists in isolation but is an action and reaction to those around. The larger dynamics of the lake impact the waves. There are core issues related to humanity that impact us as individuals. My thoughts are not a state of judgment because everything is a process and it is impossible to zero in on a single point and hold it responsible and attribute all power and responsibility to it. It is both an extremely detached and intimate process which is quite difficult to put into words.
Wow, this fits me very well.
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
That makes sense. We can only go by our own experiences... I am curious to know, however, if the xNTPs felt/behaved the same way as the xNTJs. There's such a huge difference between Fe and Fi. Do you have any insight into this?

I have greater difficulty connecting with XNTPs and XNTjs so yes, there is a big difference between Fe/Fi. For instance, conversations with INTPs tend to be more emotionally draining on me, as misunderstandings are quite common and it creates a lot of drama, whereas things are rarily that volatile with INTjs. Somehow they don't mind my questions about how their emotions work and my guesses as to how they would feel and how it affects them (I tend to do that to see if I'm getting closer to gaining understanding in who they are and how they work). Therefore, it is also easier to actually understand where they come from and how they view the world.

On the other hand, all that drama and passion makes for very entertaining and interesting conversations with INTPs, so I do like it on occasion. Once we're comfortable with each other and know what to expect (aka, giving each other the benefit of the doubt when something comes off as 'offensive'), it can yield some incredibly insightful conversations as we're no longer going round in circles misunderstanding and accusing one another. And yes, the data on cyniscism and insensitivity is largely derived from conversations with this type (once we got past the whole dancing around thing)
 

TaylorS

Aspie Idealist
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
365
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
972
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
I don't think FPs are afraid of being judged at all. They'll cling to their values no matter what other people feel about them, and then pretend to be open-minded by simply avoiding the issue.

I think all Ps tend to avoid conflict, because they're very unsure of themselves on some level, and don't want to have to justify their reasoning or values to other people, so that they can comfortably hold on to them no matter what.

I've seen this in all types of IPs, although only a few are extreme about it. Most of them are actually fairly reasonable, though.

I'm an FJ and I HATE conflict. I'm the kind of person who goes around whining "why can't we all just get along?", It's why I was a Obama supporter before being an Obama supporter was cool, I got sick of all the culture-war verbal-political conflict I experienced growing up.
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
On the other hand, all that drama and passion makes for very entertaining and interesting conversations with INTPs, so I do like it on occasion. Once we're comfortable with each other and know what to expect (aka, giving each other the benefit of the doubt when something comes off as 'offensive'), it can yield some incredibly insightful conversations as we're no longer going round in circles misunderstanding and accusing one another. And yes, the data on cyniscism and insensitivity is largely derived from conversations with this type (once we got past the whole dancing around thing)
"Connect" with many female INTPs?

How do you know that you understand them? Do they tell you so?
LOL.
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Yep. Also part-:jew:. If only I was a disabled lesbian, I'd have a full deck!

and I'm multiracial. Since I am 32, unmarried and don't want kids, I think I would have it easier if I was a lesbian honestly. At least there'd be a reasonable answer as to why I don't have a man in my life - since "they just can't keep up with me" doesn't cut it with the folks. *sheesh*
 

TaylorS

Aspie Idealist
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
365
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
972
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Avoidance of conflict or doesn't necessarily need to stem from any sort of fear or insecurity. It's probably just prioritization of harmony and personal integrity over seeking the objective truth.


It's interesting that NTs think that they understand NFs in this thread, too.

Kind of puts a spin on the thread and tells us that we're all looking at each other through our own lenses and wondering why the other doesn't see exactly what we do.
For me it stems from 2 sources. One is a raw sensory reason stemming from my Asperger's, I hate the sound of people arguing and can actually go into a typical "Aspie Meltdown" from the poisonous emotional vibes. The second reason stems from an intellectual humility, in that completely objective truth is impossible, all facts and interpretations of facts are tainted by personal and socio-cultural biases and thus one should not bash others who disagree with you unless they are supporting something that is simply wrong and evil at a gut level (like eugenics, genocide, infanticide or something else hideous. I constantly find myself getting ticked of at many fellow liberals because they treat social conservatives as inherently evil monsters. I many be for same-sex marriage, but I will not hate someone just because they are against same-sex marriage.
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
I'm an FJ and I HATE conflict. I'm the kind of person who goes around whining "why can't we all just get along?", It's why I was a Obama supporter before being an Obama supporter was cool, I got sick of all the culture-war verbal-political conflict I experienced growing up.

You supported a President just because he appeared to be nice? Wow.
 

Sentura

Phoenix Incarnate
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
750
MBTI Type
ENXP
Enneagram
1w9
I'm an FJ and I HATE conflict. I'm the kind of person who goes around whining "why can't we all just get along?", It's why I was a Obama supporter before being an Obama supporter was cool, I got sick of all the culture-war verbal-political conflict I experienced growing up.

yeah let's all just forget our problems with each other and just smile. i mean, there's no point trying RESOLVE these conflicts in order to UNDERSTAND them, right? let's all just forget progress and go back to living in our damn caves.

no, no thanks. i appreciate conflict for what it is, and i appreciate it for how it can change the views of individuals and propel people to think differently. if we didn't have war, we'd never have gotten this far in the first place. so please, let's all not get along for once and try to resolve our problems by being reasonable, rational beings instead.
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
and I'm multiracial. Since I am 32, unmarried and don't want kids, I think I would have it easier if I was a lesbian honestly. At least there'd be a reasonable answer as to why I don't have a man in my life - since "they just can't keep up with me" doesn't cut it with the folks. *sheesh*
You mean they don't already think you are?
You're doing better then I am then. ;)
 

Sentura

Phoenix Incarnate
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
750
MBTI Type
ENXP
Enneagram
1w9
and I'm multiracial. Since I am 32, unmarried and don't want kids, I think I would have it easier if I was a lesbian honestly. At least there'd be a reasonable answer as to why I don't have a man in my life - since "they just can't keep up with me" doesn't cut it with the folks. *sheesh*

you're telling me if you met a real life dr. house you'd pass up on that opportunity?
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
You mean they don't already think you are?
You're doing better then I am then. ;)

They did when I was in my 20s. Now they say 'it doesn't matter who you love, just please have a baby'

you're telling me if you met a real life dr. house you'd pass up on that opportunity?

I would kill for Dr. House and his smarmy goodness. :smile:
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Why gratuitously stir sh*t and act like a jerk when it wouldn't help the situation?

See I prefer this type of honest, albeit misguided, answer than someone pretending to be Mother Theresa.

Just say that you really believe that most of us are just trying to stir shit up, rather than get to the truth. And I will admit that I believe that most of you lie constantly to keep the peace (which may also be misguided). Then we can work from there if we really care about understanding each other.
 

Lauren Ashley

Revelation
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,067
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
See I prefer this type of honest, albeit misguided, answer than someone pretending to be Mother Theresa.

But responses like this have been called "getting defensive" and "flaming."
 

Laurie

Was E.laur
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
6,072
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
It really appears to me that some NT's have this issue and some don't.

Everyone has issues with people understanding them.
 
Top