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  1. #441
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Keirsey didn't create the temperaments, though. All possible temperament combinations exist, those four are simply the most popular. He simply chose the four organizing principles that he thought were best, which were influenced by his knowledge of the Greek humors (Sanguine=SP, Melancholic=SJ, Phlegmatic=NT, Choleric=NF).

    In fact, the original four temperaments that Myers came up with were SF, ST, NT, and NF. So NTs and NFs would be here without him, he just reorganized Sensors. I would like to note that I'm not sure Keirsey's approach is the best (though it's not the worst).
    I think maybe you took me a little too seriously. In any event, you missed the point. Which was that NTs are capable of understanding and are interested in human beings too. We just generally have a more impersonal approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    The only things I've seen you write that struck me as really odd are things such as preferring to eat in the dark, and the only reason is because almost no one does that.
    I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathanthegreat View Post
    Then at one point I just felt like an object to her, all she wanted was sex sex sex sex sex. I felt like a slave! I had to do what she wanted, when she wanted it, how she liked it, I told her she was clinically paranoid and ended it. I don't claim to understand NT's I just let them be in their logical ways and I always let INTJ's and INTP's think they are right even though sometimes they aren't.
    Finally! Someone who understands me!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #442
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    To you they probably are but to me those two are something quite similar.
    I mean why making a scene if you understand me.
    But I am open towards the possibility that my picture is incomplete.
    Because understanding someone and where they come from emotionally, doesn't mean that you agree, that you see eye to eye on them with this. Sometimes you're also torn between your own inner values and emotions they invoke and understanding the person who's violating them. And sometimes we understand that you're feeling something that motivates you to do something...but we're unsure as to the reason why and the intensity of it and want to verify if we do get what you're saying/feeling. Which results in questions from our side, or 'guesses' followed by our own thoughts on the matter, which can then result in defensiveness and miscommunication unfortunately aka a scene.


    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Typical NF argument.
    It does not matter if NTs can this or that. The point is that NFs are more likely to fail in this then they would like to admit.
    Which is not a big deal.
    Sigh. I'm merely using it to give you a frame of reference, so you can relate. If you wanna point a finger, that's fine, but the fact is that all people are guilty of this in some way or another, even you. I was hoping that if you recognized it in yourself, you'd understand why it happens in NFs as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Well if majority of NFs (Fs) thinks this way then it is trully obvious why we have problem in comunication.

    The things is I AM my subjects for the most part.
    I have already made posts about this.
    The problems can appear because you think that we like something because we do this or that often.

    You have no idea how many problems I have in life because I don't have a clear opinion about something. Which is because of my underdeveloped Fi. Sometimes you just have to make a choice and nither option seems as really good to you. So in the end you make your chioce which is something you don't care about. But large amount of people will presume that you identify with your choice. When it comes to simple everyday choices I don't know what to do. So make a temporery value system so that I can just continues with my life by making a choice.
    You are saying that you are dating INTJ I am sure that you have encountered "apathy" plenty of times. I am the same, it is just that this tendency is more expressed in me.
    I admit that this is something I often say/write without thinking about it because for me the reason to do something is because I get some advantage and pleasure out of it. Now, this is true for many NTs as well, but from what I've been told it's not always that intense or important. It's also one of those things that constantly intrigues me about NTs, as it's hard to describe their 'drive' to do something sometimes. Maybe satisfaction is a better word? Or maybe sense of accomplishment? And yes, I do get the same 'I-don't-care' answer sometimes from my SO. If I push him to choose, he'll take the most logical option. Note though, that when i get this 'apathy' reading from him, I ask. And yes, it used to drive me up the wall that he could have no opinion/show no emotions whatsoever when faced with a choice. It was also very educational and intriguing. It's something I find very perculiar as I don't function that way, so it took me some time to grasp it. I always thought I was missing something, not paying attention enough etc. However, he does also *enjoy* things and those clues are very clear.
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  3. #443
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    [...]because for me the reason to do something is because I get some advantage and pleasure out of it. [...]
    I always wonder if its only the formulation you suck at or my understanding of it. Cause I know you are not that kind of person.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #444
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I think maybe you took me a little too seriously. In any event, you missed the point. Which was that NTs are capable of understanding and are interested in human beings too. We just generally have a more impersonal approach.
    Well, I already knew that before you said anything. You study everything, and human nature is obviously a subject of study. I was just pointing out that you can't credit Keirsey's insight for the popularity of the NT and NF temperaments. So, your main point was the obvious statement rather than the dubious claim? That's somewhat unexpected.

  5. #445
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    So, your main point was the obvious statement rather than the dubious claim? That's somewhat unexpected.
    :P
    It may have been obvious to you, but apparently it wasn't to Sy, to whom my comments were addressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg
    I'm saying, in theory, NFs are inherently better suited to understand NTs as people than the other way around. And I'm also saying that, in theory, NFs are inherently better suited to understand people in general than any T.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #446
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    Aren't we all a little "emotionally handicapped" ? Yes, yes we are. I really don't know what to say about the emotional state of either type. Sometimes I think this is all bull. However, I am typed as an INFP and I connect more strongly with other NF types. @%*# if I ever knew what to do with my STJ partners. I tell you what...

    P.P.- pointless post

  7. #447
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I always wonder if its only the formulation you suck at or my understanding of it. Cause I know you are not that kind of person.
    Sigh...for some reason people seem to interpret what I say in the worst possible way at times. As for that statement, it's the honest truth. Ethology teaches us that every animal will do this. Motivation stems from 'getting a good feeling (safe, comforting, whatever) or gaining some advantage in displaying a certain type of behavior. It's natural and I'm not ashamed to say I do the same. And maybe I should everytime mention that of course I wouldn't display said behavior if it were to conflict with my values (as it will automatically make me feel bad and ruin the motivation for it anyways).

    But I personally don't think of that when I say such things. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt myself, and try to interpret such statements in the context of who I know them to be. And I guess I make the mistake of not realizing others don't do the same. (and yes, this can easily read as a passive aggressive statement and no it's not meant that way, it's just an observation).
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  8. #448
    Member Manimal's Avatar
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    I think some NF's could be better at it than others, also some NT's could be harder to read. its not black and white.

    what i would like to know, speaking in generalities, is if its possible that NT's dislike not being a bit of a mystery? do INT's and ENT's differ in this at all?

  9. #449
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manimal View Post
    I think some NF's could be better at it than others, also some NT's could be harder to read. its not black and white.

    what i would like to know, speaking in generalities, is if its possible that NT's dislike not being a bit of a mystery? do INT's and ENT's differ in this at all?
    1. True


    2. I don't know about the others but I am always coming as a mysterious and I always had. (in real life)
    Which I simply because I am that kind of a person and I think that less "mysticism" and creating stronger social bounds would be quite beneficial for me.

  10. #450
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Why NF's think they understand NT's better...because who else is going to understand NT's better than NF's you fluffy logicians, you're so predictable. Intuitively speaking picking up on the direction, logically speaking because you are logically minded and hence have certain sequential structures that are easier to interpret than not. If there is a coin for every time I understood my NT family is a coin every time they tried to force me to think like them.

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