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  1. #291
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post


    Not reallly, no.

    I didn't realize just how prevalent the making assumptions thing was until this thread. Now I'm seeing it everywhere....

    Thanks, AO. I think this was useful, even if others didn't.
    Oh shit...did I just shoot my own foot there?Whatever will I do!!

    And to think leaving it deliberately vague would save me from the "assumptions" labels...


    If it makes you feel better though, I didn't read the thread all that much. Just expressing my frustration at the need to over-think these things in such an unproductive manner. And boohoo too

  2. #292
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerithria View Post
    Okay, I just sifted through all 29 pages of this thread, and honestly, this is what I keep seeing:

    NF: (gives opinion to question stated in the OP)
    NT: Hey, look, you're doing it right there! Point proved.
    NF: Actually, I was merely attempting to answer the question. You're the one who's making a big deal out of things.
    NT: Actually, I was making a refutation based on logic. It's so NF of you to assume I was getting emotionally involved.
    NF: Okay, no. While I usually never assume anything of the sort, you were definitely getting emotionally involved there.
    NT: Oh my god, you're doing it again.
    NF: No, you're the one who's still assigning meaning to it.
    NT: No, you are!
    NF: No, you are!
    NT: No, you are!
    NF: No, you are!

    LOL! Ain't it grand? We love each other really, we just don't understand each other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #293
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerithria View Post
    Okay, I just sifted through all 29 pages of this thread, and honestly, this is what I keep seeing:

    NF: (gives opinion to question stated in the OP)
    NT: Hey, look, you're doing it right there! Point proved.
    NF: Actually, I was merely attempting to answer the question. You're the one who's making a big deal out of things.
    NT: Actually, I was making a refutation based on logic. It's so NF of you to assume I was getting emotionally involved.
    NF: Okay, no. While I usually never assume anything of the sort, you were definitely getting emotionally involved there.
    NT: Oh my god, you're doing it again.
    NF: No, you're the one who's still assigning meaning to it.
    NT: No, you are!
    NF: No, you are!
    NT: No, you are!
    NF: No, you are!

    And don't forget my similar little exchange with PeaceBaby.

    NFP: (points out possibility that OP is farming for material)
    NFJ: You're making us look stupid by looking at everything in terms of purity!
    NFP: No, those are your values. You interpreted my comment as being within that moral framework, so it must be your own.
    NFJ: Those aren't my values, it's just that you having those values was just the only reason I could think of you would say that. So if neither of us has those values, then we've both misconstrued each other. Great, we're both idiots. The NTs are right about us.
    NFP: No, we're not. Everyone reads motivations into things. NTs aren't as smart as people think, anyway.

    So, it doesn't just happen between NF and NT...

  4. #294
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Dear A200,

    Since the OP is about NT / NF communication, and not NF / NF, your little exchange proves ... nothing. Nothing at all.

    Thanks,
    PeaceBaby

    (And you edited your post above again - you didn't have the "So, it doesn't happen just between NF and NT..." sentence a minute ago! Stop doing that LOL!)

  5. #295
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    That's just what happens when people assume. It's like going off on a tangent in your head, then feeling that it's totally right, and then typing it out.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  6. #296
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Dear A200,

    Since the OP is about NT / NF communication, and not NF / NF, your little exchange proves ... nothing. Nothing at all.

    Thanks,
    PeaceBaby
    Well, it's not about the OP, true. And it doesn't prove anything. I just come up with theories, I don't try to prove them. Only NTs need to prove things, I freely admit my perceptions are subjective.

    I just thought it was interesting that the same or a similar type of communication breakdown could occur within the same temperament that was occurring between temperaments. It means that that particular kind of communication breakdown probably isn't rooted in a conflict between NT and NF mental processing.

  7. #297
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    That's just what happens when people assume. It's like going off on a tangent in your head, then feeling that it's totally right, and then typing it out.
    Indeed - some NT's believe their because their assumptions are based on logic, they are no longer assumptions somehow; they have evolved into factual statements.

    And some NF's believe that because their assumptions are based on feelings this makes them accurate without the added lens of objectivity and more extensive fact-finding.

    If I was ENTP, and posted as I did saying that AS-one was farming for book material in this thread instead of sincere fact-finding, all the other NT's would have laughed instead of assuming I had assigned a moral judgement to this. Heck, I watched the thread grow with amusement before posting in page 23 (or close to that!)

    Athenian200 too is way off base by assuming that I was assuming and then assumed again that I has assigned values to my initial statement.

    Honestly, I think very few even take the time to read and digest before replying. Does anyone not re-read the posts and reply with reflection?

  8. #298
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    And with that, I am going out to the garden for a bit - you all have a fun day!

    P.S. And I have changed my MBTI type to LOVE - 'cause that's what makes the world go 'round baby!

  9. #299
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Athenian200 too is way off base by assuming that I was assuming and then assumed again that I has assigned values to my initial statement.

    Honestly, I think very few even take the time to read and digest before replying. Does anyone not re-read the posts and reply with reflection?
    I suppose I might have been mistaken.

    I try to reply with reflection, but I genuinely struggle to understand your perspective. You seem like you have a point, but it's like we're never on the same wavelength. You know what I mean?

  10. #300
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    And don't forget my similar little exchange with PeaceBaby.

    NFP: (points out possibility that OP is farming for material)= 1st assumption
    NFJ: You're making us look stupid by looking at everything in terms of purity!=2nd assumption
    NFP: No, those are your values. You interpreted my comment as being within that moral framework, so it must be your own.
    NFJ: Those aren't my values, it's just that you having those values was just the only reason I could think of you would say that. So if neither of us has those values, then we've both misconstrued each other. Great, we're both idiots. The NTs are right about us.
    NFP: No, we're not. Everyone reads motivations into things. NTs aren't as smart as people think, anyway.

    So, it doesn't just happen between NF and NT...
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    That's just what happens when people assume. It's like going off on a tangent in your head, then feeling that it's totally right, and then typing it out.
    This is the point. Everyone does make assumptions. It's the moral conviction which will not listen to reason that can be hard to swallow.

    When NTs make assumptions, they tend to a) state them and b) don't feel personally invested in them. They are willing to sacrifice those assumptions as more information becomes available.
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby
    If I was ENTP, and posted as I did saying that AS-one was farming for book material in this thread instead of sincere fact-finding, all the other NT's would have laughed instead of assuming I had assigned a moral judgement to this.
    My, my! Would that be, hold on, an assumption, you just made there? And I don't think any NTs said anything about assigning moral judgments. What was that you were saying about reading more carefully?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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