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  1. #251
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Ok, you have my attention.


    But I used that "freaked out" in general. It wasn't about you or even about this thread.
    I'm still waiting for a response to what I posted beyond the word 'drama'. Here it is once more:


    Could it be that you do the same to us by drawing logical conclusions from what we've said and assuming that that's what we meant and immediately responding to that assumed and perceived intention instead of taking a moment to verify if that in fact is what we meant? And if so, do you understand that that can be equally annoying to us as the thing you are adressing in this thread now? For that matter, does that give you some insight as to why we do it, since you do the same thing, only on a different area? And how can we actually deal with this effectively?
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  2. #252
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I'm still waiting for a response to what I posted beyond the word 'drama'. Here it is once more:


    Could it be that you do the same to us by drawing logical conclusions from what we've said and assuming that that's what we meant and immediately responding to that assumed and perceived intention instead of taking a moment to verify if that in fact is what we meant? And if so, do you understand that that can be equally annoying to us as the thing you are adressing in this thread now? For that matter, does that give you some insight as to why we do it, since you do the same thing, only on a different area? And how can we actually deal with this effectively?


    On most cases the answer is no. But this is my personal answer.
    The thing is that in a moment you say something I see so many outcomes, plans and ways of acting that I have to check everything.
    That is why my conversations are looking like police investigations what can annoy NFs (or people in genaral) since they think that I don't trust them.
    While I just have to fill in all the gaps. Since I don't see the point in converstation if things are not clear. (unless it is something trivial and irrelevant)

    But since I can't function like this socially I try to avoid this trait as much as I can.

  3. #253
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Agreed, in my conversations with you personally, I found that you do verify. I for one, appreciate that, as it gives me a chance to explain the things that are maybe obvious to me but might not be for you and prevent misunderstandings. I was referring to NT-conversations in general, but we will see what others have to say on this matter
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  4. #254
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Could it be that you do the same to us by drawing logical conclusions from what we've said and assuming that that's what we meant and immediately responding to that assumed and perceived intention instead of taking a moment to verify if that in fact is what we meant? And if so, do you understand that that can be equally annoying to us as the thing you are adressing in this thread now? For that matter, does that give you some insight as to why we do it, since you do the same thing, only on a different area? And how can we actually deal with this effectively?
    ETA: did you just complain about people assuming that you actually mean what you say? That's pretty damned funny!

    Nope. Completely different. If the conclusions we draw are, as you say, logical, then you have no sound objection. Just because you may not like what you are hearing, doesn't make it less true. And if you have failed to communicate what you are thinking effectively - the failure is yours, I only work with what you've told me, not what I imagine you meant. That's not the same thing as making entirely speculative judgments about how someone is feeling or what motivates them. Not being able to back it up with anything other than "intuition", but clinging unreasonabley to that position regardless.

    I find NFs often value my clarity of thought and ability to be objective. In addition, I rarely give advice unless it is actively sought.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #255
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, Jeno, I'm going to use you as an example here

    This was an answer to me explaining how things work for me. She concluded that therefore, since she was not the same way, it therefore was potentially wrong in my eyes. Granted, afterwards, she said she was just curious. She did however reason/deduct from my statement that it was possible that therefore she according to me maybe couldn't connect with others. Which was hardly what I meant.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I don't understand this extremity. Why does there have to be a divide or a need to work something out? If I don't care about every single subtle (possibly irrational) emotion, does this then mean that we can't get along? Or that I am incapable of "connecting" with others?

    Also are you talking about being insensitive to one's own emotions, or to those of others?




    Of course we value insight and objectivity, otherwise we wouldn't seek out conversations with NTs But what I'm getting at is that not every logical deduction is therefore also correct. Even amongst NTs there's plenty of going back and forth between what is logical and what isn't. Hence the conclusions you sometimes draw can be wrong and should maybe first be verified through questions. Then again, from the above example it could be just the method that is lacking, as Jeno expressed she was merely curious. Perhaps NTs state what they consider to be truth and expect it to be refuted if untrue? And perhaps, NFs do the same with intuiting emotions.They state what they think the other could be experiencing as if it were the case. And if the other party isn't able to convince us that our conclusions are wrong, both parties have a tendency to treat the rebuttal as irrelevant and stick to their opinions.



    ETA: no blue, I didn't You once again misunderstood the meaning of my words.
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  6. #256
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    AS-one, I think you are farming content for a book you are writing or something...hope you are getting good material from all of your provocative threads!
    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Yeah, I agree, something just doesn't sit right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    you think he's bad? how about coberst, he doesn't even talk outside his own threads. i'd consider him farming before this guy.
    LOL @ the NFPs making assumptions about motivations, rather than answering the frigging question!

    Prosecution rests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #257
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I'm sorry, Jeno, I'm going to use you as an example here
    That's a really bad example, if you are trying to make a point. She asked you a question and thereby gave you the means of providing clarification.

    ETA: no blue, I didn't You once again misunderstood the meaning of my words.
    Yes, you did. Read it again. Maybe you are the one with the communication issue. I realize English isn't your mother tongue. A little humility wouldn't hurt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #258
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    That's a really bad example, if you are trying to make a point. She asked you a question and thereby gave you the means of providing clarification.
    Yes, you did. Read it again. Maybe you are the one with the communication issue. I realize English isn't your mother tongue. A little humility wouldn't hurt.
    Sigh, I know you don't like me dear, but can you try to look passed that and maybe take a look at what I'm trying to say, instead of getting bogged down in details and what not. I doubt that with your intelligence you're really not getting what I'm trying to say, however flawed my English is in your opinion.. Maybe you and your NT-logic can help me fill in the gaps you so seem to get hung up on. Ya know, put your personal feelings for me aside and help each other out for a change, in order to get somewhere with this topic?

    Otherwise, I might have to assume that maybe you enjoy complaining about this supposed flaw in NFs, instead of trying to actually get beyond that and find a solution. And then there's no point in further discussing this, at least imo.
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  9. #259
    lurking.... Wyst's Avatar
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  10. #260
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    LOL @ the NFPs making assumptions about motivations, rather than answering the frigging question!

    Prosecution rests.
    Sorry bluemonday, you've just made an inaccurate assumption about the intention of my post.



    We NF's tend to accept AS-one's initial post as a genuine desire to understand, yet I am postulating an alternate hypothesis simply in the interest of shaking the tree, exposing the fact that there are likely other factors at play than a "desire to understand". I am not buying that anymore; these continual threads revolving on the topic are just provocative, and I am not seeing any evolution in AS-one's understanding.

    My gentle advice to NF's: just don't take the bait. AS-one, you need to get out in the real world rather than the forum to better understand the dynamics you claim to seek.

    I wish you every success in this endeavor.

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