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  1. #201
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post

    You're in no position to disagree. You don't know what you are talking about.

    Developing a mature Feeling function does not leave one exposed to over-sensitivity to the opinions of others. As I said, it's immature and undesirable. Not all Fs are emo teens, either.

    :rolli: As opposed to you who knows everything about F-females, right?
    I'm not saying that all F's are emo teens. And I'm not disagreeing with the fact that it oversensitivity is wrong. It's part of the challenges an F faces in her life. Just like a T faces having to deal with the fact that not everyone can be convinced using logic, and they're not always right because they think their logic is correct. Not learning this results in insensitivity towards others and being ostracized. I do think we disagree strongly on what 'oversensitivity' in F-females is though.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I was just curious - it wasn't a judgment.

    Because you think that you understand NTs? Surely some NTs are sensitive and others are not. There are a great many more who pretend to be and learn to mimic social cues in order not to be ostracized and judged for being an "abnormal" female...
    Just making sure that you didn't take it as an attack. Can't help it, it's a knee-jerk reaction

    I never claimed I understood NTs. I just have had a lot of conversations with NTs one on one, as I find them intriguing. I'm just sharing the general experiences I've had with them. These are things we've discussed and that they've told me, or that I've remarked to them and they gave me feedback on.
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  2. #202
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I never claimed I understood NTs. I just have had a lot of conversations with NTs one on one, as I find them intriguing. I'm just sharing the general experiences I've had with them. These are things we've discussed and that they've told me, or that I've remarked to them and they gave me feedback on.
    That makes sense. We can only go by our own experiences... I am curious to know, however, if the xNTPs felt/behaved the same way as the xNTJs. There's such a huge difference between Fe and Fi. Do you have any insight into this?

  3. #203
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    :rolli: As opposed to you who knows everything about F-females, right?
    Nope. One does not imply the other. It's quite difficult to debate with someone who doesn't understand logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Wow, just saw this. +10000000000
    Yep. Also part-. If only I was a disabled lesbian, I'd have a full deck!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #204
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    If someone's words do not represent their ideas, I will notice that because it is relevant information. It's all a matter of degree, but if someone was afraid to tell me they dislike classical music, said they loved it, and I later found out otherwise, my response would be to notice they can create discrepancies in communication. I would also wonder why they struggle to assert their own ideas. I would take their communication with a grain of salt, and possibly tell them directly that I appreciate people with different likes and dislikes than mine and that it is okay to voice those because I want to get to know the real person and I'm pretty laid back about stuff like that. In the future if I wanted to be sure to know their opinion, I would either work harder than merely asking once, or would tell them that I want to know, but that all I can go by is their words and so I will need them to tell me. I'm not sure how much more I could extrapolate than that.

    When I hear someone describe how that sort of communication is a deal breaker, I also wonder about their experiences and how they see that, but my conclusion is much like a grey fog. It is quite indistinct and has many possibilities, but without certainty. I guess these things don't trigger a conclusion, but can capture my interest to observe, learn, and eventually make sense of it when it happens in my personal social environment.

    As an NF I have hundreds if not thousands of observations in process relating to individuals, group dynamics, and core issues about humanity. Except that it is not a game, it could be compared to playing dozens of chess games simultaneously. I have an overwhelming sense of the complexity and the unimaginable number of nuanced details. There is this sense of respect regarding how difficult it is to make determinations, but the hypothesis and strong hypothesis I create are not the result of a snap idea. If I have any degree of certainty, I have invested a tremendous amount of information gathering and analysis before I create any sense of pattern or make a statement.

    edit: I'll compare it to watching the water on a lake. It is dynamic, constantly changed and interacting with the play of light on its surface. The waves are like the individuals acting on one another, but still articulating their individual presence. No one exists in isolation but is an action and reaction to those around. The larger dynamics of the lake impact the waves. There are core issues related to humanity that impact us as individuals. My thoughts are not a state of judgment because everything is a process and it is impossible to zero in on a single point and hold it responsible and attribute all power and responsibility to it. It is both an extremely detached and intimate process which is quite difficult to put into words.
    Wow, this fits me very well.
    Autistic INFP


  5. #205
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    That makes sense. We can only go by our own experiences... I am curious to know, however, if the xNTPs felt/behaved the same way as the xNTJs. There's such a huge difference between Fe and Fi. Do you have any insight into this?
    I have greater difficulty connecting with XNTPs and XNTjs so yes, there is a big difference between Fe/Fi. For instance, conversations with INTPs tend to be more emotionally draining on me, as misunderstandings are quite common and it creates a lot of drama, whereas things are rarily that volatile with INTjs. Somehow they don't mind my questions about how their emotions work and my guesses as to how they would feel and how it affects them (I tend to do that to see if I'm getting closer to gaining understanding in who they are and how they work). Therefore, it is also easier to actually understand where they come from and how they view the world.

    On the other hand, all that drama and passion makes for very entertaining and interesting conversations with INTPs, so I do like it on occasion. Once we're comfortable with each other and know what to expect (aka, giving each other the benefit of the doubt when something comes off as 'offensive'), it can yield some incredibly insightful conversations as we're no longer going round in circles misunderstanding and accusing one another. And yes, the data on cyniscism and insensitivity is largely derived from conversations with this type (once we got past the whole dancing around thing)
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  6. #206
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I don't think FPs are afraid of being judged at all. They'll cling to their values no matter what other people feel about them, and then pretend to be open-minded by simply avoiding the issue.

    I think all Ps tend to avoid conflict, because they're very unsure of themselves on some level, and don't want to have to justify their reasoning or values to other people, so that they can comfortably hold on to them no matter what.

    I've seen this in all types of IPs, although only a few are extreme about it. Most of them are actually fairly reasonable, though.
    I'm an FJ and I HATE conflict. I'm the kind of person who goes around whining "why can't we all just get along?", It's why I was a Obama supporter before being an Obama supporter was cool, I got sick of all the culture-war verbal-political conflict I experienced growing up.
    Autistic INFP


  7. #207
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    On the other hand, all that drama and passion makes for very entertaining and interesting conversations with INTPs, so I do like it on occasion. Once we're comfortable with each other and know what to expect (aka, giving each other the benefit of the doubt when something comes off as 'offensive'), it can yield some incredibly insightful conversations as we're no longer going round in circles misunderstanding and accusing one another. And yes, the data on cyniscism and insensitivity is largely derived from conversations with this type (once we got past the whole dancing around thing)
    "Connect" with many female INTPs?

    How do you know that you understand them? Do they tell you so?
    LOL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #208
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Yep. Also part-. If only I was a disabled lesbian, I'd have a full deck!
    and I'm multiracial. Since I am 32, unmarried and don't want kids, I think I would have it easier if I was a lesbian honestly. At least there'd be a reasonable answer as to why I don't have a man in my life - since "they just can't keep up with me" doesn't cut it with the folks. *sheesh*

  9. #209
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Avoidance of conflict or doesn't necessarily need to stem from any sort of fear or insecurity. It's probably just prioritization of harmony and personal integrity over seeking the objective truth.


    It's interesting that NTs think that they understand NFs in this thread, too.

    Kind of puts a spin on the thread and tells us that we're all looking at each other through our own lenses and wondering why the other doesn't see exactly what we do.
    For me it stems from 2 sources. One is a raw sensory reason stemming from my Asperger's, I hate the sound of people arguing and can actually go into a typical "Aspie Meltdown" from the poisonous emotional vibes. The second reason stems from an intellectual humility, in that completely objective truth is impossible, all facts and interpretations of facts are tainted by personal and socio-cultural biases and thus one should not bash others who disagree with you unless they are supporting something that is simply wrong and evil at a gut level (like eugenics, genocide, infanticide or something else hideous. I constantly find myself getting ticked of at many fellow liberals because they treat social conservatives as inherently evil monsters. I many be for same-sex marriage, but I will not hate someone just because they are against same-sex marriage.
    Autistic INFP


  10. #210
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorS View Post
    I'm an FJ and I HATE conflict. I'm the kind of person who goes around whining "why can't we all just get along?", It's why I was a Obama supporter before being an Obama supporter was cool, I got sick of all the culture-war verbal-political conflict I experienced growing up.
    You supported a President just because he appeared to be nice? Wow.

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