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  1. #141
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    I also would like to add that I think it's ridiculous how AO's threads are treated by the majority of people. He just seems to have a legitimate sense of curiosity about feeling in general, and he's expressing this in his own, misunderstood way. If people would just straight up answer his questions and not flame him and be the nice police, he would get a lot more answers. "You're being mean! Not all NFs are like that!" etc after he's stated that it was a generalization and that he was just curious. People seem to really enter his threads with the intent to flame him due to the up front nature of his posts. It's kind of sad to watch. I think it's funny how people respond and flame him even if his accusation/question doesn't apply to them, like in the NFs pitying themselves thread, I wasn't offended at all because I don't pity myself or make those posts, and those kinds of posts annoy me as well.

    It's glaringly obvious that he doesn't care about the context of his text for the most part, and that he just wants to get to the point and have his question answered. He spends most of the time explaining himself because of his apparent insensitivity accused by, you guess it, the nice police.

    I think these threads would go a lot smoother if people wouldn't start constant flame wars and would just answer the question. People need to realize that he really means no harm. The flamers just seem to create problems out of the blue for some reason.

    Just my 2c though.
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  2. #142
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    I also would like to add that I think it's ridiculous how AO's threads are treated by the majority of people. He just seems to have a legitimate sense of curiosity about feeling in general, and he's expressing this in his own, misunderstood way. If people would just straight up answer his questions and not flame him and be the nice police, he would get a lot more answers. "You're being mean! Not all NFs are like that!" etc after he's stated that it was a generalization and that he was just curious. People seem to really enter his threads with the intent to flame him due to the up front nature of his posts. It's kind of sad to watch. I think it's funny how people respond and flame him even if his accusation/question doesn't apply to them, like in the NFs pitying themselves thread, I wasn't offended at all because I don't pity myself or make those posts, and those kinds of posts annoy me as well.

    It's glaringly obvious that he doesn't care about the context of his text for the most part, and that he just wants to get to the point and have his question answered. He spends most of the time explaining himself because of his apparent insensitivity accused by, you guess it, the nice police.

    I think these threads would go a lot smoother if people wouldn't start constant flame wars and would just answer the question. People need to realize that he really means no harm. The flamers just seem to create problems out of the blue for some reason.

    Just my 2c though.
    this is something i could have said. word!
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  3. #143
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    You don't even understand that you don't understand, to paraphrase heart's Kierkegaard quote.



    How can you understand if you block and/or leave? You're having an entirely inappropriate emotional reaction to someone who is merely exploring possibilities. This has happened to me countless times when debating with Fs. It's equally frustrating/exhausting to be the T on the other side of this sort of hysterical reaction. Taking a position in a debate which you don't necessarily hold is not a crime. It's simple a way of trying to ensure balance. For some people, balance and thorough exploration of the issues is more important than reaching agreement or feeling personally comfortable with an outcome.
    And who are you to tell me it is inappropriate? I'm all for fleshing out the other side of the argument, I just don't care for the way in which you propose to do it. If I *know* you're going to assume the other side as a test, try-out or whatever, it's fine with me. If you're just going to pander to my 'sensitivities' by flat lying to me, you will feel the backlash yes. If you are just trying to goad me by taking the other side of the argument without actually believing in it, and do not tell me so, I will leave as there is no point to it. We're arguing over nothing at that point. And I don't enjoy one moment of what you're doing. Nor do I need you to actually take a look at the other side of the argument. I appreciate your input, but not at that cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I totally agree with you.
    The problem that a typical FP is afraid of being judged. Which is probably becuse they are afraid of conflict in general and they are afraid of it because they usually don't go well in them.


    Also they can't watch when someone starts playing with their "values" but they don't understand that there is nothing personal in this.
    I am sorry but I simply can't accept your claims without testing them. I am not even sure that I would be able to do this even if I force myself.
    That's a bunch of bullshit. Conflict is just not enjoyable, hence I'll avoid it (as I will after this post as well btw since I've said what I needed to say imo). I have no problem reviewing my values in light of new information, and I'm the first to see the two sides of a conflict, as you need that to resolve conflict and come to a mutual beneficial agreement. I just prefer a different method of getting there than you propose. Yours actually breeds paranoia, mistrust and misunderstanding ime.
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  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I would argue it's not really the same thing. He is postulating a theory which is open to be challenged. And he is abstracting to cover the group, rather than singling out an individual. MBTI is all about this so surely no-one who happily self-identifies with a four-letter MBTI designation is going to object to being classified along these lines? And that Fs don't enjoy conflict is pretty much a given, isn't it?

    The main objection in the thread seems to be NTs taking issue with NFs who have made assumptions about how the NT feels or what their personal motivations are in a given situation.

    FWIW, I don't think he's right (about the fear of judgment). I think it's probably closer to fear of rejection - perhaps that is what he meant.

    What do you think is the reason?
    First off, about NT saying that their assumptions are not the same as NF making assumptions.


    To address your question: Being out of harmony just feels uncomfortable. I'd rather not deal with it but I will if I have to.

  5. #145
    Member Vanitas's Avatar
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    In my case, NFs just have slightly/ very different idea about (my) happiness/ things that would make me happy. Or the concept of (un)happiness itself. And they would try to help me with that.

    Their intentions are good, and I'm thankful that they care, but it's somewhat annoying after awhile. I don't need saving, really. Getting that to some NFs seemed like a lost cause sometimes.
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    Cut the cord.
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  6. #146
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    I also would like to add that I think it's ridiculous how AO's threads are treated by the majority of people. He just seems to have a legitimate sense of curiosity about feeling in general, and he's expressing this in his own, misunderstood way. If people would just straight up answer his questions and not flame him and be the nice police, he would get a lot more answers. "You're being mean! Not all NFs are like that!" etc after he's stated that it was a generalization and that he was just curious. People seem to really enter his threads with the intent to flame him due to the up front nature of his posts. It's kind of sad to watch. I think it's funny how people respond and flame him even if his accusation/question doesn't apply to them, like in the NFs pitying themselves thread, I wasn't offended at all because I don't pity myself or make those posts, and those kinds of posts annoy me as well.

    It's glaringly obvious that he doesn't care about the context of his text for the most part, and that he just wants to get to the point and have his question answered. He spends most of the time explaining himself because of his apparent insensitivity accused by, you guess it, the nice police.

    I think these threads would go a lot smoother if people wouldn't start constant flame wars and would just answer the question. People need to realize that he really means no harm. The flamers just seem to create problems out of the blue for some reason.

    Just my 2c though.
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  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    If people would just straight up answer his questions and not flame him and be the nice police, he would get a lot more answers. "You're being mean! Not all NFs are like that!" etc after he's stated that it was a generalization and that he was just curious. People seem to really enter his threads with the intent to flame him due to the up front nature of his posts. It's kind of sad to watch. I think it's funny how people respond and flame him even if his accusation/question doesn't apply to them, like in the NFs pitying themselves thread, I wasn't offended at all because I don't pity myself or make those posts, and those kinds of posts annoy me as well.
    In the post below, he seems to be admitting that he frames his postings in a provoking way to get a certain response and that he thinks he finds it educational.


    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Another "problem" is that NF act very differently when they are in normal mode or when they are emotionally charged. So what they say in normal mode probably will not apply to situations when they are angry.

    Which is the side I am far less familiar with. Since I have a trouble understanding the fact that someone can get so emotionally charged. When someone attacks him/her on verbal level.

    I am pretty sure that this thread would not got so far in the case that the OP was some "normal" post and to be honest this thread has been quite insightful for me. Since the "insult" has triggered a part of NF they try to hide in many cases. Since they dislike conflict at least that is what they calaim in other threads.

  8. #148
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    In the post below, he seems to be admitting that he frames his postings in a provoking way to get a certain response and that he thinks he finds it educational.
    Yes, I have posted a few provoking post in the last couple of days and I have stoped since I see that this is a too big deal.

    But I don't understand why creating a conflict is something that bad.
    Escecially since it is not excessive or physical conflict.

    I used word conflict but I would dare to say that NTs like to do this to
    each other. Since we think that ideas should be challnged so with conflict you are creating an atmosphere of objectivity. (At least this is how I see it.)


    I think you(NFs) are taking this too seriously.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Yes, I have posted a few provoking post in the last couple of days and I have stoped since I see that this is a too big deal.

    But I don't understand why creating a conflict is something that bad.
    Escecially since it is not excessive or physical conflict.

    I used word conflict but I would dare to say that NTs like to do this to
    each other. Since we think that ideas should be challnged so with conflict you are creating an atmosphere of objectivity. (At least this is how I see it.)


    I think you(NFs) are taking this too seriously.

    I don't understand you at all. You say first that you post in a way meant to provoke because you want to see the reactions. Then you say "hey conflict is not so bad" then you tell the NF who are giving you the reactions you claimed to be seeking that they need to stop taking you seriously.

    If I stop taking you seriously, I'll either ignore you or poke fun at you. Which would you prefer?

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I used word conflict but I would dare to say that NTs like to do this to
    each other. Since we think that ideas should be challnged so with conflict you are creating an atmosphere of objectivity. (At least this is how I see it.)
    I don't usually see the same level of provocation in the NT forum that I see with your posts in the NF forum.

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