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  1. #121
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    The understanding is there. As I said, I have no problem discussing the other side and looking at it as point of interest. To me as an NF it is also vital to see why others do believe in that point of view, as I crave to understand. However, to pretend you are in fact very much in agreeance with their POV only to later say you were not, is somethign I will usually pick up on and if not, will destroy the trust we have between us when I find out.

    It is tiring to constantly be looking for lies and deceit in others. Furthermore, it's not pleasant. If I need to do it with the people I consider my friends, I will opt to remove them from my circle of friends so I don't have to constantly keep an eye on them and watch them for backstabbing behavior.
    You don't even understand that you don't understand, to paraphrase heart's Kierkegaard quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial One
    Only when you master the arguments of the opposite side you are really ready to defend yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith
    Thanks for validating my answer then. If this is in fact what you do, I feel justified in blocking the conversation or leaving
    I have no patience with liars or deceivers. Though I can see the merit in your last sentence, this type of situation is just nausiating to me and makes me wanna leave, pronto.
    How can you understand if you block and/or leave? You're having an entirely inappropriate emotional reaction to someone who is merely exploring possibilities. This has happened to me countless times when debating with Fs. It's equally frustrating/exhausting to be the T on the other side of this sort of hysterical reaction. Taking a position in a debate which you don't necessarily hold is not a crime. It's simple a way of trying to ensure balance. For some people, balance and thorough exploration of the issues is more important than reaching agreement or feeling personally comfortable with an outcome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #122
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post

    How can you understand if you block and/or leave? You're having an entirely inappropriate emotional reaction to someone who is merely exploring possibilities. This has happened to me countless times when debating with Fs. It's equally frustrating/exhausting to be the T on the other side of this sort of hysterical reaction. Taking a position in a debate which you don't necessarily hold is not a crime. It's simple a way of trying to ensure balance. For some people, balance and thorough exploration of the issues is more important than reaching agreement or feeling personally comfortable with an outcome.
    I totally agree with you.
    The problem that a typical FP is afraid of being judged. Which is probably becuse they are afraid of conflict in general and they are afraid of it because they usually don't go well in them.


    Also they can't watch when someone starts playing with their "values" but they don't understand that there is nothing personal in this.
    I am sorry but I simply can't accept your claims without testing them. I am not even sure that I would be able to do this even if I force myself.

  3. #123
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I totally agree with you.
    The problem that a typical FP is afraid of being judged. Which is probably becuse they are afraid of conflict in general and they are afraid of it because they usually don't go well in them.
    Do you realize this is an...*gasp*...assumption about why FP don't like to engage in conflict?

    This is the same thing you people keep harping on about that you don't like about Feelers. The very reason for the generation of this thread.

    All humans make assumptions.

  4. #124
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Do you realize this is an...*gasp*...assumption about why FP don't like to engage in conflict?

    This is the same thing you people keep harping on about that you don't like about Feelers. The very reason for the generation of this thread.

    All humans make assumptions.
    i see nothing wrong with lumping groups of people together. it makes things less complicated, don't you think?
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  5. #125
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    i see nothing wrong with lumping groups of people together. it makes things less complicated, don't you think?



    Especially when your 'thesis' requires it.

  6. #126
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Do you realize this is an...*gasp*...assumption about why FP don't like to engage in conflict?

    This is the same thing you people keep harping on about that you don't like about Feelers. The very reason for the generation of this thread.
    I would argue it's not really the same thing. He is postulating a theory which is open to be challenged. And he is abstracting to cover the group, rather than singling out an individual. MBTI is all about this so surely no-one who happily self-identifies with a four-letter MBTI designation is going to object to being classified along these lines? And that Fs don't enjoy conflict is pretty much a given, isn't it?

    The main objection in the thread seems to be NTs taking issue with NFs who have made assumptions about how the NT feels or what their personal motivations are in a given situation.

    FWIW, I don't think he's right (about the fear of judgment). I think it's probably closer to fear of rejection - perhaps that is what he meant.

    What do you think is the reason?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #127
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I totally agree with you.
    The problem that a typical FP is afraid of being judged. Which is probably becuse they are afraid of conflict in general and they are afraid of it because they usually don't go well in them.
    I don't think FPs are afraid of being judged at all. They'll cling to their values no matter what other people feel about them, and then pretend to be open-minded by simply avoiding the issue.

    I think all Ps tend to avoid conflict, because they're very unsure of themselves on some level, and don't want to have to justify their reasoning or values to other people, so that they can comfortably hold on to them no matter what.

    I've seen this in all types of IPs, although only a few are extreme about it. Most of them are actually fairly reasonable, though.

  8. #128
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I think all Ps tend to avoid conflict
    Do you know any NTPs?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #129
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post

    I think all Ps tend to avoid conflict, because they're very unsure of themselves on some level, and don't want to have to justify their reasoning or values to other people, so that they can comfortably hold on to them no matter what.
    El. Oh. El.

    You've been on fire lately Athenian.



  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    FWIW, I don't think he's right (about the fear of judgment). I think it's probably closer to fear of rejection - perhaps that is what he meant.

    What do you think is the reason?
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I think all Ps tend to avoid conflict, because they're very unsure of themselves on some level, and don't want to have to justify their reasoning or values to other people, so that they can comfortably hold on to them no matter what.
    Avoidance of conflict or doesn't necessarily need to stem from any sort of fear or insecurity. It's probably just prioritization of harmony and personal integrity over seeking the objective truth.


    It's interesting that NTs think that they understand NFs in this thread, too.

    Kind of puts a spin on the thread and tells us that we're all looking at each other through our own lenses and wondering why the other doesn't see exactly what we do.

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