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[MBTI General] Feelers: What Do You Really Think About Thinkers?

camille

New member
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
23
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
4
I love them. They've always been very receptive and accepting of me. Even some of the harsher INTPs on other boards have been kind and welcoming of my discussions about emotions. I find I fit in better with INTPs than I do with some INFPs.
 

Thursday

Earth Exalted
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
3,960
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I like that I can teach some of them how to open up, and watching them uneasy and yet enjoying the affection that i offer is just to delicious to pass up.
 

will5250

New member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
83
MBTI Type
INFP
I find NTs refreshing actually. I have to watch myself so closely because I seem to have this attribute where I can easily hurt people's feelings with out realizing if I don't carefully proofread my posts or try to look at my words through the other person's eyes before I speak them, but with NTs I can relax. Their feelings don't seem to wound nearly so easily.

On the other hand, at first it was hard for me to interpret their intended meanings from their words, and the feel of their words. It kind of felt my intuition was unable to hook into something in them, or I don't know what it was, but I had to just learn from experience what certain patterns of words meant. Intuition wasn't much help at first. It was like I had to learn a new language even though we all spoke English. With most people I can percieve whether they accept me, or if I am irritating them. I just feel it in their words, or perceive it from body language, or however it works, but with NTs it's like their vibe speaks in a different tongue.
 

Banana

New member
Joined
Nov 27, 2008
Messages
32
MBTI Type
INFP
"One thing I have noticed is that many Ts find it especially hard to admit to having irrational motivations and claim to be totally objective and rational when in actuality they are rationalizing said irrational motivations. Point out the rationalization and they will instinctively get defensive because you are threatening the essence of their ego-image ("I am rational, I am logical, I am intelligent")."

I have experienced this EXACT pitfall in the T placement, but I believe this tendency is mitigated by character and environment and can be "momentary" for some, versus a continuous defense mechanism in others.

For myself, I am a slightly expressed F, but almost 100% N. So an N placement is more important in any kind of relationship I seek, otherwise we seem not to be speaking the same language (though differences can be fascinating, yadayada). Which means an NT has a great chance with me, verus an ST.

In my last professional position, I reported to three T's - An ESTP, ENTJ and finally an ESTJ.
All were dominant males in competition with each other, predictably! boyz. All intelligent and quite temperamental (in their own minds always "logical" despite erratic screaming, red-faced fits - in the workplace. not kidding). Per their conversation, it was other people who were "soft", "weak", or "personalized everything". When this view came up in conversation with any of them, I gently tried to ask them why they thought this or to describe an interaction with another person that could by definition not be "personal" and usually got blank stares or a litany of 'impersonal" subjects - they failed to answer the question, ultimately. And it is not that there couldn't be an answer, but since they skirted the question I assumed the actual answer might go something like this: "subjective assessments are crap and for the weak. I am smart and not weak. Your focus is flawed and therefore not worth responding to, end of story."

I had the most "success" with the ENTJ interpersonally, he at least expressed interest in my assessments, but he was confused by my approach, culiminating in an "I just don't understand you" moment before handing me off to the ESTJ (yikes). The NT told me once that he thought I was bright and always seemed to get to the core of a situation but he did not know how I did it. I thought this was very honest (typical T). His "skills" were on a different plane than mine, actually, but he was intimidated by navigating people's emotional responses/non-rational factors so he opted to ignore them or make fun of them. Consequently, he surrounded himself with particularly immature T's who nodded in agreement with him either because they agreed, or for their own, strategic reasons. And he frequently got the wrong answer when he attempted to analyze why something was occurring in the business- not a pretty result for an ENTJ.

The worst obstacle I found was with the ESTP, but so much of this was centered around extreme ego and character issues it is hard to tell who he would have been absent these problems. Every failed result he was involved in was explained away by the other's low intelligence, to the point where he was describing most of the people he worked with (how likely is that at an engineering firm??). My aproach with him was to repeat that he was lucky to be gifted, but unfair and unrealistic in his expectation that others would be on his level, and also incorrect that some weren't. I knew for a fact that several folks literally avoided him to protect themselves from his condescension, pure and simple. Some very bright, but sensitive people.

A final word on a T placement. I enjoy T's, even more so than a very strong F, yet all of my close friends (and my partner) are F's or X's. Personally, I am not threatened by debate and have been delightfully cornered many times in conversation with a T. They certainly have emotions and relate to people emotionally, as everyone does, but subjective understanding is not their filter or first, surface approach, and this is fine, in fact useful. Always funny to be busted on idealizing, ignoring "facts" that contradict my goals, and so forth. I find them to be more sentimental and vulnerable when they aren't in touch with themselves, and as an F, this makes me sympathize with them and see this position as a disadvantage. I once read that a T risks being manipulated via their ratonal attitudes, and I have seen this.

But. When they use this deficit to mistreat others or emotionally "abuse" people they are responsible for, my sympathy dies and I move into a J mode - you reap what you sow. They can be come quite isolated, but in this sense, by their own hand.

A final, final thought. One ENTJ whispered the following to me at a gathering, this is regarding a female subordinate of his. "I said 'hello" to her and she blew me off! She just ran away. Can you believe that?". My response? "Of course. She is afraid of you. Why would anyone be responsive to friendliness from someone they fear?". And I walked away, leaving him puzzled.

So is T "rational"? Not necessarily. Critical thinking and evaluation requires the ability to recognize and synthesize information, including "mysterious" equations like mean=avoidance. Can they be attractive, valuable and "true" friends spouses for an F? Can they love and respect differences? Why not! Definitely.

Can an F do the same for a T? Yes, but the F may struggle more than the T and the struggle may or may not be worth it. Some interactions require so much work that they move beyond the dynamic to the pointless.
 

HotpinkHeatwave

New member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
379
MBTI Type
ENFP
Sometimes I'm jealous of them, honestly. It really seems like they can just push through things that I can't.


I agree with this entirely. Some thinkers seem so untouched and uneasily hurt. They can shoot back without worrying about hurting other people's feelings, and this is something I honestly wish I could do.
 

reality.ensues

New member
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
36
MBTI Type
INfp
Enneagram
4w5
Sometimes I think they're lucky. Other times I feel sorry for them.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Yes, they are.
 

wren

New member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
384
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
4
for me i find thinker types have been the type most often to draw me in to a relationship (especially of the opposite sex type) and leave me feeling worthless. i find thinkers to be provocative, challenging me to question my status qua, calling my emotional bluff, and helping me reach a conclusion faster than other types. they also irritate me to no end! i hate it when thinker types can reason all the way through my emotions to get at the unreasonable conclusion and tempt me to believe they hold deep feelings about things only to refuse to understand them or say they don't matter anyway. that's just ... start. sorry, not very balanced atm
 

Scorquendo

New member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
58
MBTI Type
INTP
I usually think THINKERS are heartless assholes who have their head up their asses.

Which is why I disagree with Kiersey saying I should date an ESTJ or ENTJ chick.
 

HollyGolightly

New member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
293
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
1w2
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Thinkers make me feel a little inadequate, especially NTs. I feel like an over-emotional idiot =)
Some of the people I connect best with are thinkers. I get on very well with INTJs and INTPs.
I fall out with ENTPs a lot, there's only one who I have remained friends with. With the others it started out great but we rubbed each other up the wrong way.
I only know one ENTJ and he's very dear to me.
Alot of my friends as school were STs, I'd say the majority were ISTP/ESTP. I seem to get on with thinkers well, but I do annoy them, what with me trying to turn them into NFs ;P
 

speculative

Feelin' FiNe
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
927
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
I am curious about how some thinkers that I've seen post on here believe that everything stems from rationality. That "humanity" originates soley from E=MC^2, and anything else is worthless "fluff" that is only meant to service E=MC^2. Meaning doesn't come from T alone: it comes from a mixture of F and T. I am not trying to begrudge Ts their rationality and logic; in fact, I admire their skills in these areas. However, the arguments of certain Ts that F is not as important as T have missed the point of being on this cold rock floating through space. T alone may get you past the Turing test, but being self-aware and being a fully self-actualized human are not the same thing. All Ts have F, and all Fs have T. We would do better to always remember that and try to develop our less-developed functions. The point isn't to argue which one is better or more important than the other one; the point is to develop all functions as fully as possible.

I like a lot of Ts on here; the only ones that I have a problem with are those who exhibit the thinking described above...
 

stardancer

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
53
MBTI Type
ENFP
I find I am most attracted to thinkers of the opposite sex and feelers of the same sex. I don't know what it is exactly about those thinker men that make me weak in the knees. Perhaps it is the challenge of getting them to open up more emotionally, or admiration at being able to be more logical about things than I tend to be. Sometimes it is like they are part of me that is lacking and make me feel balanced. Does that make sense? It makes sense in my head but hard to express with words.
 

Betty Blue

Let me count the ways
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
5,063
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7W6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I wish we had a Feelers private forum so the SF could reply on this thread but we don't so...

Anyway, what do the folks here in the NF private forum really think about Thinkers?

I like them to open up their brains and display all their contents on the table so i can pick out all the wonderful info and ignore the rational garbage.
I like intellect, it can be very attractive. But NOT EVERYTHING is black and white. Love is real baby get used to it!:wubbie:
 

TheMonocle

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
37
Depends. If they have a sentimental streak that I can see through the tough exterior it drives me crazy. In the good way. I will dote like a puppy. :)

If they can make me think and see something new without talking down to me they end up being my closest friends. I like them better alone than in a group. I don't feel like I have much to add when I'm sitting in the middle of a group of thinkers. Well, that actually depends. Sometimes, I do, but I don't always share it because I'm having more fun listening to them do mental gymnastics. Secretly bowing at the altar of logic. I so love geeky men.

Women thinkers are harder for me to understand. I feel for them. They seem to feel slightly misplaced where ever they go. I want to scoop them up and take them in, but they aren't usually real receptive. :) The ones that are usually take to me in and become super protective. It's always a surprisingly flattering feeling.
 

QPoet

New member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
18
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
5w4
I think they're damn dirty apes!!!

Seriously, the thing that bothers me about many of them (not all) is that they become too impressed with their logic and all the facts they've memorized, like no one else knows things! Too many don't have the common sense and wisdom to really make things work well though. We all need to be balanced as human beings. Especially younger T's, tend to go overboard with logic and knowledge and avoid tending their commons sense and wise mind. This makes them unbalanced and less able to positively interact with others.

Not that T's are the only kind that have problems interacting. But for T's, when problems do arise, its often the arrogance that gives them trouble in inter-personal relationships. For we feelers, its a whole other set of circumstances.
 
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