i envy their ability to focus on concepts and think through labyrinths of data (where we more emotional types would get frustrated and quit)...especially NTs. they can be downright brilliant in their insights.. i also find their humour pretty f*cking funny.
Originally Posted by Athenian200
Sometimes I'm jealous of them, honestly. It really seems like they can just push through things that I can't.
But when I see the pitiful, broken, childish emotions that crawl out of their tortured minds once in a while, that jealousy quickly turns to pity.
I seem to be really good at attracting them luckily because I find their intelligence and rational cool to be extremely sexy. I do often find myself assigning feelings to them that aren't there though.
I like reasonable people. I like rational people. There is some overlap with these qualities and people who label as T's.
In some cases I wish I could more often count on Rationals to be rational.
The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas. H.G. WELLS
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. FEYNMAN If this is monkey pee, you're on your own.SCULLY
A thought crossed my mind today. I wonder if the designations of compartmentalized vs. integrated thinker would create a similar divide that we see using the terms thinker vs. feeler? Having discussed questions I have about the mutual exclusivity of the T and F poles in previous posts, I was wondering if we are essentially talking about the difference between thinking in a compartmentalized vs. an integrated manner. The compartmentalized thinker will isolate various types of data according to their function and similarity. This is the approach that will isolate logic and fact from the more uncertain and immeasurable questions of human experience and feeling. This would also explain the individual who can debate a particular topic using hard logic, but then lose control emotionally and scream and yell in another setting. The integrated thinker may tend towards less pristine logic, but may also tend to apply it a larger variety of contexts. This approach also accounts for emotion in all individuals which is observable and hard-wired in the brain. There are also neurologically compelling reasons observed in the way the two hemispheres are connected that can contribute to these categories (compartmentalized vs. integration) as being fundamentally legitimate to cognitive processing.
These designations are more neutral than T and F and more mutually exclusive by nature. The absence of one quality strongly suggests the presence of the other. It's just a thought, but does explain a lot of the application on first examination.
I had a very similar idea, though I used the terms "Distinctional" for Ts and "Relational" for Fs. When Ts make judgments they tend to distinguish between things, that is, how things differ. When Fs make judgments they tend to relate between things, emphasizing how things are alike.
This explains, for example, why metaphor and poetry tends to be an F thing, Metaphor relates seemingly unrelated things. I am reminded of an online argument in which I was defending the value of mythology. The other person could never seem to understand the value of metaphor and analogy and thought the notion of a metaphorical truth was an affront to Reason and Truth. I tried to explain how the very grammar of our language is dependent on metaphor (all "grammar words", for example, start out as metaphorical usages, the verbs "have" and "got" started out as verbs used to mean possession and later became grammar words, "I have ran" "I gotta run".) and the person still didn't get it.
Thinkers who are divorced from their own feeling will see it in such a negative light that to them, all that they are is their intellect, skill, talent and ability. This is their sole reason for being here and to live their lives. When they may feel they are not as intelligent or able as they feel they must be to be a worthy person, they have nothing else. They stand there stripped to the bone, cut off from their only sense of self or worth as human being. So they must keep ego defenses up and believe deeply in the infalibility of their thinking and logic, as they have nothing else to believe in themselves about. Really it seems like a lot of inhuman pressure to live under and it would never relent as it comes from the self.
The Feeler divorced from thinking is in just as bad a situation.
One thing I have noticed is that many Ts find it especially hard to admit to having irrational motivations and claim to be totally objective and rational when in actuality they are rationalizing said irrational motivations. Point out the rationalization and they will instinctively get defensive because you are threatening the essence of their ego-image ("I am rational, I am logical, I am intelligent").
I value them because they're different from me. At the same time I can't really understand how they live like that, constantly analyzing facts and figures and such. It seems kind of nauseating. But I wouldn't have them any other way.
"So I say, live and let live. Thatís my motto. Live and let live.
Anyone who canít go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker."
- George Carlin
Mmmm...I do believe that I love me some Thinkers. Well, hum. I'll have to rephrase that as "I love me some Intuitive Thinkers." Maybe it's because of the shared "N" that I really seem to hit it off with these people. The conversations I've had with the NTs in my life have been some of the most captivating and stimulating. As a strong F with an extreme love of complex scientific theories and the like, I find that friendships with NTs balance me out (not so much "ground" me - that's what S-types are for - but to help me shift my focus).
I am very wrapped up in my world of feelings a lot of the time that a T will come along and take me on a whirlwind adventure through my mind and the possibilities of the universe. It's like a breath of fresh air sometimes! I also find I enjoy the logical way of viewing things (like decision-making processes, for example). I can't, personally, adhere to carrying out my life in that way (again, being such a strong F), but I can understand and appreciate a T's point of view.
T's can be tiresome sometimes if you do get one who is rigid and has an "emotions are useless" attitude. I will agree with the statements of those on here concerning these tendencies. As long as you can spar with a T on the intellectual field, however, even the most rigid and (dare I say it) immature T will respect you.
But the company of a T who is in tune with his Feeling side (or, at least, one who can appreciate emotion) is a gem, indeed. I can't think a more awesome person to be with than a T with a developed Feeling side!
I also find that, if a T is open enough (again, in tune with his Feeling side), there is much that I can bring to the relationship (friendship or otherwise) as well as him me. I have found that many Ts enjoy Feelers and are somewhat reverently baffled by them. A good T friend of mine has confessed that he "is in awe at how I can trust my feeling so much to make a decision based off of them." In a lot of ways, it's not that all Thinkers dislike feeling...they're just not as confident of their emotions as we Feelers are.
I just have to make sure with my T relationships that I don't let myself get run away with emotion. If I find myself slip, they close themselves off because it makes them uncomfortable! I really don't mind this, though. If they're respectful enough to not be too cold and calculating around me (something that, if done uncompromisingly can make me shut down), I can be respectful to not be too emotional around them.
It's a bit of a balancing act in an F/T relationship and luckily I've only gotten to know Ts who can see the rich benefits that can be reaped from making those compromises. I am more than willing to. I love the rationale of the Ts (and perhaps envy them it just a little).
I do often find myself assigning feelings to them that aren't there though.
I learned long ago (as I'm sure you probably have learned, too) that this was one of the most fruitless things I could do.
Last edited by staytuned7; 06-19-2009 at 12:10 AM.
Reason: added some stuff