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  1. #21
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    The brand of Ts that are invested in ego, drama, being rude, social dominance do not seem that clear thinking to me. There is a kind of fragmented objectivism that can be cohesive and enlightening in certain contexts, but then evaporates once ego is struck.
    Thinkers who are divorced from their own feeling will see it in such a negative light that to them, all that they are is their intellect, skill, talent and ability. This is their sole reason for being here and to live their lives. When they may feel they are not as intelligent or able as they feel they must be to be a worthy person, they have nothing else. They stand there stripped to the bone, cut off from their only sense of self or worth as human being. So they must keep ego defenses up and believe deeply in the infalibility of their thinking and logic, as they have nothing else to believe in themselves about. Really it seems like a lot of inhuman pressure to live under and it would never relent as it comes from the self.

    The Feeler divorced from thinking is in just as bad a situation.

  2. #22
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Thinkers who are divorced from their own feeling will see it in such a negative light that to them, all that they are is their intellect, skill, talent and ability. This is their sole reason for being here and to live their lives. When they may feel they are not as intelligent or able as they feel they must be to be a worthy person, they have nothing else. They stand there stripped to the bone, cut off from their only sense of self or worth as human being. So they must keep ego defenses up and believe deeply in the infalibility of their thinking and logic, as they have nothing else to believe in themselves about. Really it seems like a lot of inhuman pressure to live under and it would never relent as it comes from the self.

    The Feeler divorced from thinking is in just as bad a situation.
    There are a couple of factors that can contribute to the mindset you described. The first is the Western cultural ideals set in place over the past century, and the second has to do with brain development.

    Western culture as it moved into the Industrial Age and beyond explored this kind of extreme Objectivism that compartmentalized the thoughts and emotions in a way that mirrors the compartmentalization of society. There is a lot of literature both in philosophy and fiction that explores this cultural ideal. It helps to study other cultural ideals in order to be able to see how many of our assumptions and ideals are inundated by culture and are not a neutral, objective point of reference.

    The emotional hardwiring is present whether or not it is acknowledged or accepted. The brain is just another organ which functions according to natural law. The frontal lobe is the area of the brain that regulates emotion. The individuals I have encountered that reject all emotion tend to be young boys, and occasionally girls, who are still developing their self identities. It is now considered that the frontal lobe does not complete development until around age 25. This can be more of a brain development issue than a personality or temperament issue. This is especially true on forums such as these since there is a rather high representation of individuals younger than 25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearson
    In an ensuing fMRI study directed by Yurgelun-Todd, 16 participants ages 12 to 17 also erred frequently when labeling the emotion on fearful faces. Those less than 14 years old answered incorrectly about half the time and yet showed the most amygdala activity, while older teens made fewer errors and displayed less activity in the amygdala and more in the frontal lobes than the younger participants did.

    Previous studies had found that, when given the same task, adults label most fearful expressions correctly and exhibit much more activity in the frontal lobes than in the amygdala.
    Edit: One thing should be clarified: in all my comments about compartmentalized vs integrated styles of thinking and the physical component of emotion in the brain, I want to be sure this is not taken to imply an assumption that emotion is equally distributed amongst all people. Compartmentalization does not by nature determine the size or number of emotional compartments so to speak. There are some individuals who could plausibly compartmentalize all emotion into the subconscious so that they don't consciously process any of it. This approach to categories could explain how some people are primarily logical in communication and yet incapable of applying logic in personal situations. It could also explain why some people take personal consequences into account in more scenarios, but still approach the problem solving in a rational manner. It also addresses the underlying confusions when these two approaches encounter.

    This little epiphany has helped me understand my own thought processes. I would label myself as a highly integrated thinker who works at applying reason uniformly and whose errors in reason tend to result from including too much or the wrong type of data in a particular instance. My mind and behaviors as a whole are primarily consistent. This is what allows me to address extreme personal pain with more calmness and reason than some more compartmentalized thinkers are able to, and yet they also help correct some of my misapplied logic by helping me manage my data better. There are primarily logical thinkers who are mostly consistent, but there can still be a sense of compartmentalization, where logic is given a significantly sized compartment. There is still a difference if there are clear boundaries on that compartment, even if the resulting behaviors of each are consistent.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #23
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Ts drive me crazy nitpicking, and it's often without realizing what the discussion is really about, or what is really going on. They get snagged on the surface of some peripheral and won't let go of it.

    On the other hand, out-of-balance Fs feel threatening to me because of the irrationality and the tendency to wallow or to need to induce feeling in other people.

    Overall, I think Fs make decisions that turn out as well as Ts' decisions, even if they make them for different reasons.

    For a mate, I'd rather have a T. For a friend, I'd rather have an F.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Who are you trying to fool Noigmn?? These are NTs we are talking about....NTs for crying out loud!!!
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  5. #25
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    I don't get them. At all. I don't think I ever will. And I'm trying really hard not to let myself be caught into thinking that I do get them. Too much trouble comes from that.

    But this doesn't stop me from being intrigued, fascinated, puzzled, frustrated and whatnot by them.

  6. #26
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    I think thinkers are awesome. Until they get caught up in being the "only" rational beings on the planet.

  7. #27
    Junior Member a24kar's Avatar
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    I think that there is a place in this world for all types of people. The question that I pose for die-hard Thinkers is this... "What is beauty?"

  8. #28
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Ts drive me crazy nitpicking, and it's often without realizing what the discussion is really about, or what is really going on. They get snagged on the surface of some peripheral and won't let go of it.

    On the other hand, out-of-balance Fs feel threatening to me because of the irrationality and the tendency to wallow or to need to induce feeling in other people.

    Overall, I think Fs make decisions that turn out as well as Ts' decisions, even if they make them for different reasons.

    For a mate, I'd rather have a T. For a friend, I'd rather have an F.
    +1

    The nitpicking often becomes a hurdle in conversation. I dunno, maybe we're too nonchalant in wording, but sometimes you have to wonder if they do it as a strategy, in order to 'win', by bogging you down, or if they really don't understand what you meant, and totally missed the essence of what you were saying.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  9. #29
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    As long as they're balanced, and not one of the Uber-logician type, I have little against them. In fact they can provide for intellectual stimulating discussions, although I'm not able to sustain it as long as they can. Not to mention the bantering they do with each other is absolutely hilarious. Again, I can't keep it up as long as they can. I do envy them on both scores.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Ts drive me crazy nitpicking, and it's often without realizing what the discussion is really about, or what is really going on. They get snagged on the surface of some peripheral and won't let go of it.
    +1 You're not alone in being irritated by this. When nitpicking, they completely miss the point. That or when they just keep it up simply because they want to undermine your belief in your position, rather than actually argue their point.

  10. #30
    It's always something... PuddleRiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Ts drive me crazy nitpicking, and it's often without realizing what the discussion is really about, or what is really going on. They get snagged on the surface of some peripheral and won't let go of it.

    QFT, I tune out when they do this. I live with 2 of them. I've learned to hold my own, though, and give as good as I get.
    "In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay one invincible summer."
    ~~~~
    A Christian's life may be the only Bible some people ever read.
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    "The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them" Maya Angelou.
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    I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" Gandhi
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