User Tag List

First 123412 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 126

  1. #11

    Default

    ENTJ: Love, worship, feel they are improved versions of ENFP dammit. If there is coldness, I've never noticed it. They just don`t weigh in on the crap.

    ENTP: Think they overestimate themselves sometimes. Are smart, but often the certainty of that and the need to display it undermines their adaptability and the integrity of their cause. Love them a tonne though, and always want to meet more of them. They are probably more motivated and inspiring than us ENFPs.

    INTP: Can over logic me sometimes, but admire them for their logical integrity, and their endless generousity. Have hearts of gold, even though they can be very honest when you don`t want to hear it.

    INTJ: Can be hard to get to know. I`ve found a little slow to get to accept you, but priceless once you know them

    I love all NTs I think.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  2. #12
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    I respect my T friends. The one's I get along with are markedly reasonable people. They really are quite clear thinking and objective, even-tempered, logical, rational, able to think outside the context of their own ego. They are a little like Commander Data. I value those aspects of myself that are coherent and reasonable. Such friends strengthen these aspects of myself.

    The brand of Ts that are invested in ego, drama, being rude, social dominance do not seem that clear thinking to me. There is a kind of fragmented objectivism that can be cohesive and enlightening in certain contexts, but then evaporates once ego is struck. In debates I find myself to be more rational in these situations, but because of the designations and social expectations, one makes their argument, have the other come back with personal insults, strawman arguments, and other game tactics to try to prove their dominance. I have been disappointed when there is someone who seems capable of having an enlightening debate who gets so ego invested or fixated on MBTI categories with prejudice that it is impossible to communicate. It's not clear to me how people on this end of the spectrum share a category with the ones described in the first paragraph. To each their own and more power to them, but I find it to be a false application of the MBTI categories. Such methods of thinking are what some people choose and it can also help them achieve what they want in life, but it is not clear thinking in its fullest manifestation and to call it so is simply not honest. Being egotistical and not caring about people's feelings doesn't make someone a genius either. You actually have to be smart and able to demonstrate it. Obviously only a few get this extreme, but it does happen. What happens more often is a some degree of correlation between ego-invested social dominance and the assumption of intelligence.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #13
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Posts
    6,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    ENTJ: Love, worship, feel they are improved versions of ENFP dammit. If there is coldness, I've never noticed it. They just don`t weigh in on the crap.

    ENTP: Think they overestimate themselves sometimes. Are smart, but often the certainty of that and the need to display it undermines their adaptability and the integrity of their cause. Love them a tonne though, and always want to meet more of them. They are probably more motivated and inspiring than us ENFPs.

    INTP: Can over logic me sometimes, but admire them for their logical integrity, and their endless generousity. Have hearts of gold, even though they can be very honest when you don`t want to hear it.

    INTJ: Can be hard to get to know. I`ve found a little slow to get to accept you, but priceless once you know them

    I love all NTs I think.

    Who are you trying to fool Noigmn?? These are NTs we are talking about....NTs for crying out loud!!!

  4. #14
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I respect my T friends. The one's I get along with are markedly reasonable people. They really are quite clear thinking and objective, even-tempered, logical, rational, able to think outside the context of their own ego. They are a little like Commander Data. I value those aspects of myself that are coherent and reasonable. Such friends strengthen these aspects of myself.

    The brand of Ts that are invested in ego, drama, being rude, social dominance do not seem that clear thinking to me. There is a kind of fragmented objectivism that can be cohesive and enlightening in certain contexts, but then evaporates once ego is struck. In debates I find myself to be more rational in these situations, but because of the designations and social expectations, one makes their argument, have the other come back with personal insults, strawman arguments, and other game tactics to try to prove their dominance. I have been disappointed when there is someone who seems capable of having an enlightening debate who gets so ego invested or fixated on MBTI categories with prejudice that it is impossible to communicate. It's not clear to me how people on this end of the spectrum share a category with the ones described in the first paragraph. To each their own and more power to them, but I find it to be a false application of the MBTI categories. Such methods of thinking are what some people choose and it can also help them achieve what they want in life, but it is not clear thinking in its fullest manifestation and to call it so is simply not honest. Being egotistical and not caring about people's feelings doesn't make someone a genius.
    Great post!!

    In my personal life most people I know aren't invested in mbti, don't know much about it, or scoff at it. :-) So I don't really run into instances of people stereotyping or a false application of mbti.

    Your examples of different 'brands' of T is interesting, and I have seen both examples in real life. I tend to ignore the latter, as I find that level of debate/argumentativeness/egoism petty and immature. But F's have are not immune to these types of tactics either so I'd feel the same way about them. This might be one of those things that falls outside of mbti to a degree.

    As for how I feel about thinkers...I'm fine with them. I tend to get along well with them, and can't think of any major issues I've had. We may view things from different perspectives at times, but a lot of the times we do come to the same conclusions or think/feel the same way about things. They amuse me at times (as I no doubt amuse them), but really I see no major barriers between us. Communication is fine.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  5. #15
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Great post!!

    In my personal life most people I know aren't invested in mbti, don't know much about it, or scoff at it. :-) So I don't really run into instances of people stereotyping or a false application of mbti.

    Your examples of different 'brands' of T is interesting, and I have seen both examples in real life. I tend to ignore the latter, as I find that level of debate/argumentativeness/egoism petty and immature. But F's have are not immune to these types of tactics either so I'd feel the same way about them. This might be one of those things that falls outside of mbti to a degree.
    That seems like a reasonable way of dealing with it. Feelers by category don't have the same claim to clear thinking, which is the issue I was attempting to address. I've found some of the same principles in real life, but outside the labeling system of MBTI. Part of the problem might be that the actual individual can be a rather messy example of an MBTI category. The danger of a personality description is that an individual can change the way they see themselves and so if they answered questions about not being concerned with feelings, end up with a T designation, and then read that T's are logical, there can be false connections made, especially immature people who are still getting to understand who they are. There is also a set of cultural assumptions that can evolve from this process in online communities or work communities that apply MBTI.

    Edit: I guess part of the problem I am addressing goes deeper than dealing with people. It has more to do with various aspects of the validity of MBTI in terms of accuracy of testing, usefulness as a theory, and problems with the way it is applied socially. Placing empathy and logic at mutually exclusive poles doesn't reflect reality imo. I have not seen a convincing case made for that assumption. There are people who clearly have one or the other as a strength, but I propose there is more of a correlation than exclusivity. Both require the ability to think outside the box of self/ego. The relationship to self/ego could be argued to be the most fundamental component in shaping the way a person thinks and acts on the world. If this is disregarded by MBTI, then its ability to form a complete picture should be reevaluated.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  6. #16
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post

    Edit: I guess part of the problem I am addressing goes deeper than dealing with people. It has more to do with various aspects of the validity of MBTI in terms of accuracy of testing, usefulness as a theory, and problems with the way it is applied socially. Placing empathy and logic at mutually exclusive poles doesn't reflect reality imo. I have not seen a convincing case made for that assumption. There are people who clearly have one or the other as a strength, but I propose there is more of a correlation than exclusivity. Both require the ability to think outside the box of self/ego. The relationship to self/ego could be argued to be the most fundamental component in shaping the way a person thinks and acts on the world. If this is disregarded by MBTI, then its ability to form a complete picture should be reevaluated.
    I agree wholeheartedly, and have similar thoughts on its applicability to reality. I feel like a broken record whenever I write this, as I've written it so many times on here, but I think when mbti is viewed as 16 'trends'/tendencies, it is most useful. But, it is also very generic as well when viewed in this light (but it *should* be more generic, should it not? Seeing as we are putting billions of people into only 16 ways of being). It's when you try to make it more detailed and rigid that it becomes inconsistent. Most people, in reality, don't fit the stereotypes. Granted, there are some that fit them to a T, but most step out of the box of what they're 'supposed' to be doing, whether it's situationally or in a broader context.

    Back to T/F, I think it can be highly illogical, from a survival/social standpoint, to lack empathy and feeling, as there are many elements of existance and life as a member of a social species that require feeling. Well, 'require' might be the wrong word, as one could without a doubt survive without it (and people on the extreme T end do), but it certainly wouldn't make for smooth sailing. Just as it's detrimental, and doesn't really make sense, to rely solely on empathy. That's just as counterproductive to being 'successful' in certain areas of life as being strictly logical. The reality is that most people are somewhere in the middle - T's and F's alike. There isn't the giant gaping T/F difference that many people like to create. I mean, obviously both have preferences, and I'm not saying the differences don't exist - as it's apparent they do. But most people don't fall on either end of the extreme.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  7. #17
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Some of them I love for their interesting facts, articulate arguments, and succinct manner of turning a phrase. Sometimes T's seem "calmer" which can be good.

    On the other hand, other T's are condecending, rude, and superior acting. Some believe their way of thinking is the "best" way of thinking, which can come across as being as rigid and closed minded as someone who makes judgements based upon their feelings.

    I think I admired NT men a great deal when I was younger because I thought that they were so knowledgeable, but now that I'm older I see that they also sometimes have serious ISSUES with their emotions, which makes me perceive them much more as my equals than I did ten years ago.

  8. #18
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly, and have similar thoughts on its applicability to reality. I feel like a broken record whenever I write this, as I've written it so many times on here, but I think when mbti is viewed as 16 'trends'/tendencies, it is most useful. But, it is also very generic as well when viewed in this light (but it *should* be more generic, should it not? Seeing as we are putting billions of people into only 16 ways of being). It's when you try to make it more detailed and rigid that it becomes inconsistent. Most people, in reality, don't fit the stereotypes. Granted, there are some that fit them to a T, but most step out of the box of what they're 'supposed' to be doing, whether it's situationally or in a broader context.

    Back to T/F, I think it can be highly illogical, from a survival/social standpoint, to lack empathy and feeling, as there are many elements of existance and life as a member of a social species that require feeling. Well, 'require' might be the wrong word, as one could without a doubt survive without it (and people on the extreme T end do), but it certainly wouldn't make for smooth sailing. Just as it's detrimental, and doesn't really make sense, to rely solely on empathy. That's just as counterproductive to being 'successful' in certain areas of life as being strictly logical. The reality is that most people are somewhere in the middle - T's and F's alike. There isn't the giant gaping T/F difference that many people like to create. I mean, obviously both have preferences, and I'm not saying the differences don't exist - as it's apparent they do. But most people don't fall on either end of the extreme.
    We are on a rather similar page in this topic I believe.

    For the purpose of the topic, I want to clarify the difference I see in the T/F poles vs. the E/I poles for example. If a person does not like being alone, this suggests they prefer being social. If a person does not like being at a party, they likely want to be alone. The absence of one trait suggests the presence of the other in the E/I poles.

    If someone is too egotistical to think logically, it is likely they are too egotistical to be empathetic. If someone cares enough to be willing to set aside their own feelings and try to understand a situation from someone else's point of view, this same person has a higher likelihood of listening to reason (which might exactly be the other person's view). The way in which the absence of one trait can actually suggest the absence of the other makes this pole fundamentally different from the E/I pole.

    Where I do see legitimacy in T/F is in the kinds of information a particular brain naturally absorbs. Some people just don't see emotional cues often and some people can't remember technical information. The type of information that is remembered does not necessary indicate the way in which that information is processed. The type of information absorbed tends to be related to whatever has been required of a person in their life to survive and they have designated larger portions of their brain to gather those details.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #19
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,860

    Default

    they can have a 'bull-in-the-china-shop' quality, that I find primitive and annoying, but I get along fine with those who lack that propensity.

    I have a strong T, since my dad was such a brilliant and logical man, but let's face a fact here: at base, humans are emotional. It's the T's who deny (or are blissfully ignorant of) this that I find troublesome. I generally prefer the company of feelers...but...
    I have LOTS of T friends, who I really like, so It's all a case-by-case things for me. I know some INFP's who I have a hard time being around because they are too emotional for me at times.

    T's are cool.

  10. #20
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default compartmentalized vs. integrated thinker

    A thought crossed my mind today. I wonder if the designations of compartmentalized vs. integrated thinker would create a similar divide that we see using the terms thinker vs. feeler? Having discussed questions I have about the mutual exclusivity of the T and F poles in previous posts, I was wondering if we are essentially talking about the difference between thinking in a compartmentalized vs. an integrated manner. The compartmentalized thinker will isolate various types of data according to their function and similarity. This is the approach that will isolate logic and fact from the more uncertain and immeasurable questions of human experience and feeling. This would also explain the individual who can debate a particular topic using hard logic, but then lose control emotionally and scream and yell in another setting. The integrated thinker may tend towards less pristine logic, but may also tend to apply it a larger variety of contexts. This approach also accounts for emotion in all individuals which is observable and hard-wired in the brain. There are also neurologically compelling reasons observed in the way the two hemispheres are connected that can contribute to these categories (compartmentalized vs. integration) as being fundamentally legitimate to cognitive processing.

    These designations are more neutral than T and F and more mutually exclusive by nature. The absence of one quality strongly suggests the presence of the other. It's just a thought, but does explain a lot of the application on first examination.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

Similar Threads

  1. What do you REALLY think about ENFPs?
    By IceBlock in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 06-27-2012, 07:19 PM
  2. [MBTItm] What do you truly think about feelers ?
    By Virtual ghost in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 118
    Last Post: 01-13-2011, 03:54 PM
  3. [NT] NTs, what do you honestly think about other temperaments in relation to yours?
    By ygolo in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 149
    Last Post: 09-14-2010, 11:35 PM
  4. [MBTItm] NFs...What do you honestly think about other Types/Temperaments?
    By Nyx in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-31-2009, 09:50 PM
  5. What do you really think of me?
    By Phantonym in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 06-23-2009, 11:29 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO