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  1. #111
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    not sure what I think about thinkers, seeing as how they're about 50% of the population, that's a lot of people I have to make a grouped judgment about who I don't even know.

  2. #112
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    yeah, all of this is just... not to be taken too seriously.

  3. #113
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    not sure what I think about thinkers, seeing as how they're about 50% of the population, that's a lot of people I have to make a grouped judgment about who I don't even know.
    It's generalizations based on patterns of experience, which is why most have noted there are many exceptions to the feelings they express.

    I have certainly known Thinkers who are not arrogant and can acknowledge the validity of emotions and feeling-reasoning. Unfortunately, I have not come across as many of those as the less-than-reasonable kinds....
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #114
    Senior Member Heart&Brain's Avatar
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    I've known a few Thinkers who seem to lack emotional generosity even though they claim to be 'close' to you. They may observe that you are sad or hurt and need comfort or reassurance. You may tell them straight out that you need it. But it seems that (many) Ts still don't bother to move a finger for you emotionally if they can't see a guaranteed rational benefit of it to themselves.


    The idealist in me has always kept believing that if I gave enough warmth myself, they would eventually be able to / dare to / care to give warmth back at some point.

    The realist in me found out the hard way that if it's not there to begin with, it's unlikely it'll ever happen.

    So I divorced my ISTP-husband . Oh, the incredible, life-saving relief of finding an SF boyfriend for a period after that! Like coming out of icy waters and being hugged and cuddled in front on a fireplace, swept in a warm blanket and served hot cocoa.

    After a year or so, I missed objective intellectual exchange badly though.

    Being with an INFJ sometimes later has been the best combination of emotional and logical intelligence I've experienced yet. Still, something was missing.

    I wonder if this other need is answered by the NTs: A calming toughness, an insistence, a clear sight without the fears that keep clouding mine?

    Or if these experiences simply mean that I'm doomed to be eternally oscillating, unsatisfied or only partly and temporarily satisfied?


    Waitwaitwait.... or... Any NF-women have good experiences with polyandry?

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart&Brain View Post
    The idealist in me has always kept believing that if I gave enough warmth myself, they would eventually be able to / dare to / care to give warmth back at some point.

    The realist in me found out the hard way that if it's not there to begin with, it's unlikely it'll ever happen.
    Oh, this does not give me hope.

    Or if these experiences simply mean that I'm doomed to be eternally oscillating, unsatisfied or only partly and temporarily satisfied?
    I think it's the doom of the entire humankind. There will always be something missing. I don't mean to be such a downer, but as yourself, my relationships with both thinkers and feelers have shown that yes, there is only temporary satisfaction as something is, indeed, missing.

  6. #116
    Senior Member Heart&Brain's Avatar
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    Do other Feelers have experiences with the emotional generosity - or lack thereof - in Thinkers?

    Are they somehow "build" to be cheap in this aspect of life? To give less than they enjoy getting from Feelers? :steam:


    I mean, does emotional exchange in F-T relations have to be borderline starvation and hypothermia for the F or was I just unlucky with the ISTP?

  7. #117
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    men and women are different in the first place. i'd check my own expectations, if i wasn't satisfied in any relationship i've had....

  8. #118
    Member ElizaJane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart&Brain View Post
    I wonder if this other need is answered by the NTs: A calming toughness, an insistence, a clear sight without the fears that keep clouding mine?
    I think you got it right here. I love my NT. No other type felt quite right.

  9. #119
    Member Jon_sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart&Brain View Post
    The idealist in me has always kept believing that if I gave enough warmth myself, they would eventually be able to / dare to / care to give warmth back at some point.

    The realist in me found out the hard way that if it's not there to begin with, it's unlikely it'll ever happen.

    One trait can be selfishness, I have tried to give them stuff, do things for them, never works, they continue being self centered and selfish... Oh well...

  10. #120
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Thinkers have repressed emotional sides until matured. This can evolve anywhere from teens to 90. Meaning some continue to repress their emotional side and lack maturity their whole lives.

    Conversely

    Feelers have repressed their thinking side until matured. This again means the same as above, without maturity their emotions override their ability to think rationally. There is after all rational logic and irrational logic as much as rational emotions and irrational emotions and everything in between.

    The misunderstanding then applies to how much ego pride and shame there is to begin with, as a human condition, our psyche absorbs a certain amount of stimuli and experiences according to the ramifications of our culture. and our cultures, be it society or family. Which tends to be geared to mainstream sensory logic which again is different to intuitive logic.

    Having said that I think mature thinkers are excellent to know, their ability to comprehend more than just logical stimuli on a level that isn't undermining the importance of their feelings and emotions are wise and able to then understand a significant proportion of how people interact and treat each other without clinically trying to create thought fields that justify the behaviour as irrational. The interesting aspect for me is that both rational and emotional aspects of thinking and feeling tend to have patterns that have a consistency about them. What some infer to as chaos and order is like taking a block of wood and painting it black and white. Limited rational, limited emotional, creating a deficit in functional thinking. Without taking into account that as the world isn't flat but rounded, neither are feelings flat but rounded. This of course gets into all kinds of paradoxes, quandaries and the like, when the misunderstood implication behind how our minds react to emotional stimuli go back to how our minds work.

    For even thinkers react emotionally without thinking on every level, be it with an oversimplification that is less cluttered sometimes. However, it is when testing the association you have against plants, animals and other people that the reactions are most notable. For those that are guarded, are the most emotionally repressed and tend to exaggerate the most their claim of avoiding emotions.

    So far my real life experiences with thinkers has been negative, having family members who are TJ. They are completely closed off from their feelings, so much so that to bring it up is illogical, a deep fury is seen in their eyes with word mention love. It is something that appears to have been omitted from their vocabulary and to bring up and explore the topic of emotions in conversation is deemed illogical and dismissed.

    Yet when the other cheek hits a nerve why do I need to listen to their critical thinking and engage them in conversation if they choose to ignore mine. I certainly speak my mind sometimes and end up being called illogical when they misunderstand my perspective. Especially when it actually overrides some of their own logic, it scares them. Because as you know the a TJ's issue is the tendency to be correct at all times, anything else is deemed irrational, while respected from thinkers deemed just about useless when coming from feelers.

    In general I do appreciate ST and NT minds, makes me think and that is what our minds are meant to do, think and feel through our thoughts and emotions.

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