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  1. #41
    Senior Member whimsical's Avatar
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    lol. i totally get that type of rational, even if it doesnt seem that logical
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #42
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Fi Ne Si/Te:

    Example?
    Case study: INFP mama

    1) Animals - ethics (with the F-twist)

    My INFP mama on why not to leave our pet bird out while her friends may gather in the house.

    Me: Is it because it annoys the guests? Because, if it's not a formal get-togther, just your friends dropping by, why would you feel the need to move her?

    Mama: It's inhumane, because they don't understand her (the bird)....so when they laugh at her tricks/antics, it's not like us (meaning the family), who have learned and now understand her ways.

    Me:
    I believe your mom notices the feelings and empathizes with the bird in a way you cannot. A bird's gestures and expressive language isn't as human-like as a cat's, but it's there.

    However, based on what you provided, it seems like your mom is saying it bothers HER, not the bird. Your mom cares for the bird and it probably hurts her to see it disrespected by people who she feels are ignorant on this subject.

    2) Belly button ring

    Me: I wanna get it pierced
    Mama: If you want to mutilate the symbolic bond/thread between a mother and a child, go right ahead....

    Me:
    Heh. Well she did say 'go ahead'.

    You could have just said, 'I'm decorating it to emphasize it and bring it out, so other people will appreciate our symbolic bond'!

  3. #43
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Its difficult to explain without making me sound like a nutter . Its an intrinsic, instinctive unconscious impression that all things have some sort of emotional quality, admittedly, mostly of the imagined, projected kind. [...] As I've said in other threads, INFPs see meaning in everything
    You don't sound like a complete nutter, your reasoning is like deja vu, from what I hear from my mom.


    Qre:us, it might be that your mum feels sensitive about what is hers to protect and defend. She may see that bird as a part of what defines her, it is something she loves and cares about and for people to laugh and make comments about it would, by extension, be perceived as a indirect attack on her. She wants to keep the bird out of it so she doesn't have to explain or justify the behaviour of the bird, and therefore, herself.
    Seriously, this makes perfect sense. Thanks for putting it in words.

    I think morality can be rational, believe me I've taken philosophy and ethics classes. In those classes you hade to provide logical step-by-step argument as to why something is ethical or not.
    Yes, as a logical argument has to be rational, but, a rational argument encompasses far more areas, such that a logical premise may be moot.


    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    OMG, I say things like that.
    I once said to a pathologist who was being very unco-operative "I guess you'll be explaining to the patient's grieving family why we couldn't issue a particular drug that could have saved thier life."
    It was a question of money, you see....The drug costs $500 a gram, and for it to be effective you need about 6grms. It was life and death.
    What you rather have; a three thousand dollar debt, or a dead family member?
    I know which one I'd have. So I think Qre:us, you have us pegged.
    The moral cheerleader, you INFPs.

    Quote Originally Posted by whimsical View Post
    lol. i totally get that type of rational, even if it doesnt seem that logical
    Question: what motivates you (or others that may agree with your sentiment) to follow through, even if you recognize the lack of 'logic' in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    However, based on what you provided, it seems like your mom is saying it bothers HER, not the bird. Your mom cares for the bird and it probably hurts her to see it disrespected by people who she feels are ignorant on this subject.
    It bothers her, on behalf of the bird, and yes, herself as well. She's all about the underdog, the vulnerable, no stray left behind, type of deal. In these situations, it's hard to cleanly separate her from her cause, maybe an INFP thing? Dunno.

    You could have just said, 'I'm decorating it to emphasize it and bring it out, so other people will appreciate our symbolic bond'!
    Heh! She would have replied that my tastes are tacky, so I'm mocking the bond more than aesthetically celebrating it. It's never-ending...such walks in rule-less rationalization.

  4. #44
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    It bothers her, on behalf of the bird, and yes, herself as well. She's all about the underdog, the vulnerable, no stray left behind, type of deal. In these situations, it's hard to cleanly separate her from her cause, maybe an INFP thing? Dunno.
    I wasn't sure if she thought the bird's feelings were being hurt, or if HER feelings were being hurt. If she thinks the bird's feelings are being hurt, and she can't pinpoint to any action suggesting it (like with a dog you can see it slump and cower when you yell at it, is she noticing a bird equivilant?) then you are witnessing classic Fi projection.

    I like Southern's explanation.

    (Oh, and I see what you did there. )

    Heh! She would have replied that my tastes are tacky, so I'm mocking the bond more than aesthetically celebrating it. It's never-ending...such walks in rule-less rationalization.
    Just tell her that in the wise words of Krusty the Klown, "I tease mock because I love."

  5. #45
    heart on fire
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    Well, it would be interesting if Q could ask her mother what signals the bird uses to communicate with her. I would be interested in that. It's a lovely topic.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Well, it would be interesting if Q could ask her mother what signals the bird uses to communicate with her. I would be interested in that. It's a lovely topic.
    Morse code.






    It's pretty evident actually, because she won't stop squawking until you *get it right* (right being whatever she wants to achieve, turn off light in room because she's about to sleep and you forgot, you left her alone in a room, her food bowl is tipped over [she did it], etc, etc). Or, she'll just fly to you and land on your plate (meaning, I want what you're eating...she understands eating very well, and will cause a ruckus if we're in the kitchen, and microwave is beeping and she's not included there). And, there's a difference between the squawking and sweet chirping (which is her first line of communication, to 'ask nicely', with 10 seconds pause, which then turns to squawking...as in, 'obviously, niceness doesn't work with the lot of you so...#*(#@&(@#)@*#)(*#@'!!!!!

    Ah, silly birds and sillier humans.

  7. #47
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    Well, I think it's more playful than rational.

  8. #48
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Me: I wanna get it pierced
    Mama: If you want to mutilate the symbolic bond/thread between a mother and a child, go right ahead....
    I haven't read any of the other responses, but my first reaction to this is a tongue-in-cheek humour intended to catch you off-guard. At least it would be if I said it ...

  9. #49
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    The problem with subjective morality is that it can more easily conflict with objective morality, or someone else's subjective morality. At least those with objective morality speak a common language: reason.

    A few admittedly extreme examples:

    Case 1: Stranded on a Desert Island
    Subjective morality: We can't eat the only bird on this island! He is stuck here in the same battle for survival as us.

    Objective morality: Many people eat birds every day. We will die if we don't eat that bird. It has lost the battle for survival.

    Case 2: My Religion is The Truth
    Subjective morality: My religion is The Truth. People who do not accept it are evil because they either cannot see the Truth, or reject it. They should die to further the cause of Truth.

    Objective morality: Humankind would descend into chaos, and possibly extinction if people were allowed to kill others, therefore, killing someone is immoral.


    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    We're You're not.
    I am. You're not.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Me: I wanna get it pierced
    Mama: If you want to mutilate the symbolic bond/thread between a mother and a child, go right ahead....

    Me:
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I haven't read any of the other responses, but my first reaction to this is a tongue-in-cheek humour intended to catch you off-guard. At least it would be if I said it ...
    V
    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I gave tongue-in-cheek funny examples...to kinda stretch the points to obvious 'irrationality'...
    (humour is so subjective)

    Great minds.....

    ****

    Yeah, from her end, she is not oblivious to her 'irrationality' which makes it even the more quixotic and quirky. She knows me, my personality...and matches me with her own brand of F-flavoured Ne. That's the thing...I often can make any irrationality rational on logical terms, I tongue-in-cheek call it the ENTP charm. You guys seem to do the same with morals. Rationalize it, that subjective twist.

    Maybe I'm not using the right word: moral - ethics, principles, humanity...

    These, you guys, INFPs, are good at coming up with a rationale that's 'morally' bent. And, there's a thread...a connection that *somehow* beyond the nonsense, makes sense.

    (Alice in wonderland reference ^)

    And, perhaps because it's such introspective topics, subjective meaning a subject/self....unlike objective logic, hence, I see this in you guys more than your extraverted counterparts, ENFPs.

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