User Tag List

First 4567 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 62

  1. #51
    Member invaderzim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    65

    Default

    I still think she set you up with those flowers. My dad (ENFJ) trys to run that same bull.
    My theory::
    At first, you didn't have the time/money to give her the flower you promised her. Then she bought you flowers. She already was going to hold it over your head that you forgot her but she still remembered what you wanted. Your confused facial expression was just the window she needed to get all theatrical.
    My dad loooooves guilt tactics. You have to use your intuition to crush the drama before it starts or call their hand on it.

    For example, if you had come with the flower the day she bought you the Amethysts, she wouldn't have been able to do anything.
    Or if you had just called her hand and said "the only reason you bought me the amethysts was to gulit trip me anyways".
    I'm positive you would have seen the blankest "ohh crap he already knows what i'm up to expression on her face"

    I don't know why ENFJs have a tendency to waste valueable energy on drama (but maybe its because they have so much emotional energy)? Isn't it easier just to say "the flower meant alot to me, I was a little hurt you couldn't get it sooner" ?


    I can't tell how many times I've derailed my dad, or sucked the joy out a possible "drama king" episode.
    They're are like emotional bombs...defusing them is a full time job.
    But its draining after awhile.

    ESFJs are more containable because their gulit-tripping is only for the moment.
    ENFJs will predict all the way down the line exactly how they are going to manipulate a sitution/you.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Xellotath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    181

    Default

    I don't know if it might help you, but thinking about all this reminded me of a recurring thought I used to have as a teen, right when I was dealing with her.
    "Am I your offspring or your equal?"
    The answer to this, is to me the quintessential Fe or Fi.
    If you pick Fe, you are her son, she by giving birth to you is your mother, therefore you owe her your life and should aim to please her in anyway possible and just -take it- whenever she gets mad, no matter how unfair her thinking might appear.
    If you pick Fi, you are her equal, as human. She no longer is allowed to be the almighty princess because the standard is human to begin with. A human cannot be held responsible for things and circumstances outside his/her locus of control.

    Do you see the difference? One focuses on the social role (Fe). The other on what is human (Fi).

    What made my particular ENFJ so poisonnous is that she would often say "I want to be your friend!", attempting to come across as an "enlightened" mother (a rather pleasing social cliche rooted in a superficial imitation of Fi). Her actions and intentions however, never demonstrated any of that.

  3. #53
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    But that labelling someone else's emotions as 'irrational' - especially from an INFP - to me seems ironic and particularly unproductive in a personal relationship that will never change (you will always be your mother's son).Basically, she is gonna think you didn't even "care" enough to recognize what it means for her to do this for her, and in a way, she's right.

    Why can't you make that extra step, especially if it's not really a "big deal" and it'll mean so much to your mom?

    We inconvenience and challenge ourselves all the time to reach and comfort people that we love, for no other reason than we love them. Now, if that's not irrational, I don't know what is!
    well said.

    I too have the perspective of years living on my own, and even being a mother myself, within the context of my relationship with my parents. Sometimes it seems frustrating to be the one who "bends" more, accommodates more, but consider yourself fortunate, powerful, lucky even to be able to do this! Sensing other's needs can be a huge gift! (I try to think of it from the positive, not the negative lol!)

    You KNOW what to do, and you've said as much. Don't begrudge your Mom the small tokens that bring her so much pleasure.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Xellotath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    181

    Default

    Careful.
    Don't lose yourself in trying to be the hero and martyr of her whims.
    Integrity is worth more than all the temporary peace and future contemplations of "oh gee, I could have been nicer", or unfounded hopes that by being nicer you will somehow backwards-engineer a reason for her behavior in a way that makes sense to you. Its a problem of integrity because it wouldn't be the real you dictating your actions but social situations (Fe), which in theory should stand against your Fi.

    By favoring Fi you are caught in a dilemma. Compromise, and you will compromise yourself in the process. To momentarily give in into the demands of an Fe, is to me the equivalent of saying "That's ok, you're a crazy person, a sub-human person." Denying them their sense of humanity in favor of a trivial social abstraction. Egalitarian instincts should kick in at this stage and make you think "No, she is my equal, therefore she -should- get this."

    I'm sorry, there is no way out.
    To be an Fi means you will always run into conflicts with Fe.
    Anything else, is like putting a band aid on a bullet hole.

    But maybe I'm just in love with personality-based fatalism.
    Errare humanum est.

  5. #55
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    CzeCze and Edahn said pretty much everything I was planning to say. I would like to revisit your OP and give some of my initial responses, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat
    Well mother's day comes around and I don't have it. I tell her it's because I had just gotten the check and didn't get a chance to get her it yet. She seemed fine about this, and instead we had an outing just for her. We went on a hike, ate at her favorite restaurant, and saw the new Star Trek movie (she's a Trekkie). She seemed pretty content.
    Since you were, as you say, broke, this sounds like your mom taking YOU out for dinner and a movie. If her "love language" is gifts, she probably didn't consider this to be your gift to her.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat
    That was on mother's day. After that I go to my dad's house (I stay with her during the weekend) and and chill out on Monday. On Tuesday I cash the check, but that night I had a lot of homework to do, so once again I couldn't go to get her her plant. On Wednesday I had to stay home to take care of the animals at the house, since my dad had to go out and run errands all day, and at the end of the day go to band practice. So once again I couldn't do anything. On Thursday my friends wanted to hang out, and I hadn't seen them in about 10 days (nor socialized in 10 days) so I took the opportunity, no one is off work much anymore nowadays. Once again I couldn't really get it for her.
    Sure you could. How long does it take to buy a flower? The homework excuse I can almost buy but staying home to take care of the animals (are they retarded? do they require 24/7 hands-on care?) and socializing with your friends, I can't. The bottom line is that you placed doing what you told your mother you would do very low on your list of priorities. Yes, it's a single stupid flower. She could very easily have gone out and gotten it herself, but that is beside the point. I think she's not being unreasonable to be hurt. You've characterized her as an irrational cult-joiner in this very thread--is it really hard to believe that your feelings for her wouldn't come through in your behavior?
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #56
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INfp
    Enneagram
    9w1 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    5,295

    Default

    Blackcat - The fact that you still somewhat live with your mom is important. I do understand how difficult it is to have to be the 'bigger person' to a parent that has helped to ruin your childhood. (I'm aware of some of the details in the OP casually referred to.) Once you get some space away from her, please revisit this issue. Alot of the advice you are getting comes from people that were in the same boat, but then moved away and have had a chance to reflect. They have perspective you simply cannot have. Listening to them provides an opportunity for self-growth. Likewise, it probably isn't fair to expect you to show the same level of understanding and patience they now do.


    However, I do think your mom has one valid justification, and if you want to avoid this situation in the future you need to take ownership of at least one thing:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Sure you could. How long does it take to buy a flower? The homework excuse I can almost buy but staying home to take care of the animals (are they retarded? do they require 24/7 hands-on care?) and socializing with your friends, I can't. The bottom line is that you placed doing what you told your mother you would do very low on your list of priorities.
    To your mom, it's clear you prioritized friends and animals above a promise you kept to her. You broke your word, and even to me that would hurt a bit, even if I didn't care about the gifts. Your mom just discovered that a promise from her son is worth less than keeping an eye on the animals for an hour (time it takes to get a rose and come home) and hanging out with friends.

    And you know what? I think she's right. You're clearly very frustrated with her right now, and would probably just as soon not see her for a year or two. These are understandable emotions considering your history with her.

    Of course, I may be reaching just a bit. However, the sooner you admit that your negative feelings towards her may have played a role in this situation the sooner you'll be able to start viewing and dealing with her in a constructive manner.

    Now, I may be coming off a bit harsh. To be fair, I didn't start gaining that ability until I was 28. I think I may be asking alot from someone so much younger than I was. So realize my challenge to you is one coming from respect... I think you might be able to start heading down this path.

    If not, fair enough.

  7. #57
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ESFP
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    7,004

    Default

    Yep, you're pretty much right Udog. And I know that too in myself.

    The reason it wasn't really that high on my priorities list is that she will make the biggest deal in the world about nothing, and then just act like everything is fine. That's what has happened, it's predictable. I'm still going to do it... so it's going to be fine to her. What I promised was that I would get her gift to her in some way, some time. That's what I told her. I'm going to uphold that. She has made me lower on her list of priorities with this kind of thing too, so we understand the whole "eventually" factor. I don't really care honestly that I am lower on her list as long as my basic needs are accommodated for.

    This is getting to be kicking a dead horse, since I know what needs to happen. But your input is always appreciated Udog. And everyone else.

    I think the both of us (mom and son) know that relations will get better when I'm not living with her.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  8. #58
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,702

    Default

    If someone was being materialistic with me it would be on my low priorities.

    I find it very hard to believe she simply wanted a flower more so than the emotional drama that could be channeled through it. Also if she did JUST want the flower.... how materialistic is that anyway?

    I wholeheartedly agree with invaderzim which sounds strange after watching some episodes of it the other day ;p

  9. #59
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    If someone was being materialistic with me it would be on my low priorities.
    You probably wouldn't be promising them gifts, though.

    I don't see how the mother in this case was being materialistic, though--the way I read Black Cat's account of her actions, she was unconcerned with the material value of the gift. She just wanted the gesture.

    Doesn't really matter since we're only getting one side here. There are always at least two sides, and most often none of the sides are entirely in the right.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #60
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,702

    Default

    Don't really care

    It's all pointless dribble to me

    People who create emotional drama need to get a hobbie instead

Similar Threads

  1. I Think I Need Some Help Determining My Type.
    By Monomaniac in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-03-2013, 07:14 PM
  2. [Other] need some help with my mission impossible
    By INTP in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-25-2010, 02:05 PM
  3. [ENFP] I need some help with my mom.
    By BlackCat in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 01-26-2009, 03:18 AM
  4. [INFP] I need some help with an INFP...
    By Nadiar in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-03-2008, 01:48 PM
  5. Help with my ENFJ friend
    By Tigerlily in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-05-2008, 05:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO