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  1. #41
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    It's not that I literally don't understand, it's just that I can't accept why anyone would be that way.
    It comes natural to her. Fe is her dominant function and she trusts it. You want her to rationalize her feelings and not be so "dramatic," but that is much harder for her to do.

  2. #42
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    It comes natural to her. Fe is her dominant function and she trusts it. You want her to rationalize her feelings and not be so "dramatic," but that is much harder for her to do.
    Yeah I know. I know that, but it doesn't really resonate well with me.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  3. #43
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Yeah I know. I know that, but it doesn't really resonate well with me.
    Why though? Not trying to pry, but I want to understand.

  4. #44
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Why though? Not trying to pry, but I want to understand.
    I just don't get why someone would get so pissy about not getting gifts... It's beyond me. Or how someone can get offended so much about the context, and when they do they disregard the meaning. It's an opposite point of view for me.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  5. #45
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    If you're familiar with styles of love, my mom is a primary gift giver (of course), and secondary acts of service. I'm a primary quality time, and a secondary physical touch. We are totally different in this aspect.

    I really don't know why she feels this way or why any of this means so much to her. I understand logically, but I'm not "getting" it.

    What do you people think? I would really appreciate another viewpoint on this, I don't know what to do.
    Well......

    I checked out the "styles of love" thing from various sources online and its pretty interesting stuff.

    It seems like the basic idea is that, if you love someone and you know what their "love style" or "love language" is, then you should basically cater to their wants/needs/expectations---(even if, on some level, you think their wants/needs/expectations are absurd.)

    Of course, that inevitably involves sacrificing your own comfort/natural inclinations (or possibly even values, in some cases).

    I have a bit of a problem with that myself, so I'm not exactly recommending it, but I think its legitimate food for thought.

    I mean, when it comes between your own needs and someone else's, how do you decide which ones are more important?

    (I don't know about you, but I have Enneatype 2 tendencies, so this is a big issue for me.)

    Ultimately, I think there's a fine line between altruism and a sick preoccupation with self-sacrifice so I guess it would be a matter of balance.

    I have no idea how to strike that balance but, again---its just food for thought.


  6. #46
    WTF is this dude saying? A Schnitzel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Do you think it would help patch things up? : / My friends are about fed up with me not calling them, not partaking in group events, etc.
    It might. I would generally avoid racking up the medical bills for this sort of situation.

    When your friends whine distract them by saying "nice face".
    Then say "I'll come when your parties get more interesting".

    After this you can casually slip suggestions in to conversations as to how said social events could be improved (for your benefit). You'd be surprised open they are to suggestions.

    I have no advice for the telephone situation since I never pick up the phone anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    sheesh humans! for realz

  7. #47
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Hey Black Cat, I'm not ENFX but as an ENFP who has had and has close friendships and dating relationships with INXP - I'll say diplomatically that you are not able to see eye to eye. But that labelling someone else's emotions as 'irrational' - especially from an INFP - to me seems ironic and particularly unproductive in a personal relationship that will never change (you will always be your mother's son). I have found through experience that sometimes you INXPs can be really stubborn and stuck on being correct and unable to really put yourself in someone's shoes, even with your Ne.

    Emotions don't have to make sense in themselves, they always lead you in the right direction back to intent like you say, though.

    She basically feels like she put herself out there for you in buying you the flowers and your response - while you don't characterize it as 'rejection' - IS a rejection for her. Because you obviously felt uncomfortable or baffled by it and you yourself say that you didn't want it - it made you uncomfortable because you saw it as an obligation or something else she could hang over you.

    You didn't "get" it immediately and accept immediately simply a sign that she is going a little above and beyond for you - because loving someone means going above in beyond in tangible object-specific demonstrative ways and she loves you.

    It was definitely symbolic of you rejecting her or rebuffing her show of love.


    Basically, she is gonna think you didn't even "care" enough to recognize what it means for her to do this for her, and in a way, she's right

    I guess I'm in the minority here because you sound a little cold and closed-off to really relating to your mom at least even in your OP. I'm not judging, I'm sure there are many other stories and really a long history of misunderstandings and frustrations that bring you to this point (and I know that Fi, once it feels threatened or under attack will retreat and hold its ground)

    Just wanted to point out that you even broke out type personality theory and the love-style theory - if you were to look at this totally unbiased and 'rationally' - all you'd have to do at this point is plug in "A is to B, and when in C situation, do D" and it's very clear cut what her actions mean/what she wants/the appropriate response in the situation.

    But, you say you still "don't get it". I don't think it's so much a matter of "not getting it" as "not approving of it" and "not wanting to bend to her way" because it's frustrating for you and it makes you angry that she won't or can't understand your POV and you find all this other stuff totally unecessary.

    Why can't you make that extra step, especially if it's not really a "big deal" and it'll mean so much to your mom?

    I think perhaps this is exactly what is going through your mom's mind in these moments and I think there's some truth to it.

    We inconvenience and challenge ourselves all the time to reach and comfort people that we love, for no other reason than we love them. Now, if that's not irrational, I don't know what is!

    PS I don't relate similarly to my parents either - they are both hardcore NTs, dad is INTJ mom is INTP. However, I am significantly older than you (been out of the house for years! Woot!) and have the luxury of hindsight and indepenence to help me. I know how my parents show their love and I know how to show my appreciation for it in a way that they understand.

    My own POV for this is just to speak in a way that they can understand and then take care of myself on my own. You may not need your mom's demonstrations of love, but she does from you. I also am horrible at remembering dates and cards and all that, but if something is important to a friend or someone I'm dating (and I care enough about the relationship) I will make an effort if for no other reason than to please them.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  8. #48
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Hey Black Cat, I'm not ENFX but as an ENFP who has had and has close friendships and dating relationships with INXP - I'll say diplomatically that you are not able to see eye to eye. But that labelling someone else's emotions as 'irrational' - especially from an INFP - to me seems ironic and particularly unproductive in a personal relationship that will never change (you will always be your mother's son). I have found through experience that sometimes you INXPs can be really stubborn and stuck on being correct and unable to really put yourself in someone's shoes, even with your Ne.
    First off, overall a good post.

    I think that her emotions are irrational because she knows that everything should be fine... She knew I had my reasons and she pretty much explicitly told me it was ok, then had that reaction anyway (which came from a disagreement, but yeah). That in it's own makes it unproductive.

    As I've said in this thread many times, I've put myself in her shoes and don't know how to walk with them. We don't get each other!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    Well......
    Yeah, my cousin is very much read up on the styles of love thing. To have good relationships it's ideal to have some shared styles apparently.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  9. #49
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Just so you people know I'm pretty clear on what I need to do, the OP was more of a rant than anything. Any more advice is noted, but I know what I need to do.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  10. #50
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Black Cat,
    I'm tearing my hair out of frustration for you. My Mother is ESFJ, and that Fe can unwieldly. I've got nothing really to add, as you know, I completely stopped talking with my mother, to save my sanity....but man, does that bring back memories. I always was accused of being selfish also, even though I bent backwards to please her, though I never even achieved that. I even was told I was the worst daughter a women could possibly have. Seriously, that cuts deep, as I sacrificed my whole future to please her.

    If I had any advice at all I'd give it, but I think I was like you, I found my mother completely irrational also, and couldn't wait to high tail it out of there.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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