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  1. #21
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    +1
    Either we (The other SFs on this forum) are anomalies or there's something wrong with the guideline rule. Personally I don't get the impression I'm that unique compared to other SF, especially other SFJs in my life. We're all extremely similar so I have to conclude something is up with these assessments that are being bounced around.

    This is definitely true. It's a matter of needing to adapt. It's also the reason I've found it really bizzare when I see another 'social reject' slating off another person for being too weird. I've been a social outcast for most of my life, the only child in the family who did something outside the usual paths. It's not the N/S that determines how judgemental people are, it's whether they are used to doing something differently. But at the end of the day, most people fear the unknown. I doubt that's any less true for intuitives.

    No. This is just more stereotyping.
    Gah I always feel like such a tool attempting to defend sensors or feeling based sensors.
    Truthfully, all types are little more than stereotypes.

    They're meant to be caricatures that people associate with particular traits. You're pretty much supposed to pick the one you like being associated with, whether it's accurate or not.

    People here don't like the idea of sensors, because here we seem to have associated that mindset with fundamentalist religious beliefs, intolerance towards new ideas, parents that tried to impose traditional roles on their children against their will, a lack of curiosity, shallowness and superficiality, and an inability to grasp irony or sarcasm. They'll make exceptions for an individual sensor once they "prove" themselves, but in general this is what people see.

    Now, are sensors really like that? Probably not, but it doesn't matter, because that's how people want to see them. And in an archetype system that's based on caricatures anyway... there's nothing to balance it out. Quite honestly, the whole idea of "sensors" and "intuitives" may only seem to exist because of confirmation bias. The whole thing could be in our heads.

    The main thing you need to know about this system isn't its intended use, it's the way people have ended up using it. It's mostly something that some people find helpful in uncovering the parts of themselves that they've repressed, and gives them images to project onto other people in order to help them rationalize out how they got where they are, and what kind of things they need to do to move forward. It allows people to rid themselves of guilt and other kinds of baggage by enabling them to blame their environment instead of themselves, so that they can change. Some people are programmed to blame themselves for everything, and really need something like this.

    Honestly, I think you'd have a much easier time here if you just changed your S to an N. You're intelligent enough that few would question it.
    I mean, think about it... you say you're the only one who has done things differently in your family. You could go a little further and say that's because you're creative and they're not. You could decide that you were a social reject because no one appreciated your creativity/uniqueness and differences from other people, looking down on you for not conforming to their way of doing things. You can see why that kind of perspective would be appealing, right?

    Do you see what I'm getting at here?

  2. #22
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    Gah. Can't beat be moderately respected by the mob, so you should join them?

  3. #23
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colors View Post
    Gah. Can't beat be moderately respected by the mob, so you should join them?
    No, no... you see, sensors ARE supposed to BE the mob. We intuitive types are the victims of the mob.

    That's the way the picture has been painted.

  4. #24
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    You're pretty much supposed to pick the one you like being associated with, whether it's accurate or not.
    Hmmm...I typed myself as INFJ because it described me well.

    People here don't like the idea of sensors, because here we seem to have associated that mindset with fundamentalist religious beliefs, intolerance towards new ideas, parents that tried to impose traditional roles on their children against their will, a lack of curiosity, shallowness and superficiality, and an inability to grasp irony or sarcasm.
    I don't have any problem with sensors and don't associate sensing with those traits.

    It allows people to rid themselves of guilt and other kinds of baggage by enabling them to blame their environment instead of themselves, so that they can change. Some people are programmed to blame themselves for everything, and really need something like this.
    ...Maybe you should speak only for yourself. Just sayin'.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    People here don't like the idea of sensors, because here we seem to have associated that mindset with fundamentalist religious beliefs, intolerance towards new ideas, parents that tried to impose traditional roles on their children against their will, a lack of curiosity, shallowness and superficiality, and an inability to grasp irony or sarcasm. They'll make exceptions for an individual sensor once they "prove" themselves, but in general this is what people see.
    I associate SPs with artists, people who reject traditional formal education, and rebels. I associate SPs with sensitive musicians and actors. People who are fun and easy going.

    What you describe I associate more with SJs. And I would think that some people would prefer to SJs because they are SJs and SJ can be easily associated with "normality" in the most strictly middle class American sense of the word i.e. Christianity, support our troops, Abercrombie and Fitch.



    Honestly, I think you'd have a much easier time here if you just changed your S to an N. You're intelligent enough that few would question it.
    I mean, think about it... you say you're the only one who has done things differently in your family. You could go a little further and say that's because you're creative and they're not. You could decide that you were a social reject because no one appreciated your creativity/uniqueness and differences from other people, looking down on you for not conforming to their way of doing things.
    I don't think that this is a good idea. You should just be who you are. Also, I think SPs can be creative. I don't automatically associate N with creative. I associate it more with analytical and introspective.

  6. #26
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Hmmm...I typed myself as INFJ because it described me well.
    I did too, at first. It was later on that I realized that it worked that way.


    I don't have any problem with sensors and don't associate sensing with those traits.
    I don't have any problem with them either. I don't even agree with that trait list. That's just how I've noticed that that's how people seem to see sensors on here.
    ...Maybe you should speak only for yourself. Just sayin'.
    I'm not speaking for myself at all, though.

  7. #27
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I did too, at first. It was later on that I realized that it worked that way.
    How so?

    I'm not speaking for myself at all, though.
    Maybe you should do that.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Truthfully, all types are little more than stereotypes.

    They're meant to be caricatures that people associate with particular traits. You're pretty much supposed to pick the one you like being associated with, whether it's accurate or not.

    People here don't like the idea of sensors, because here we seem to have associated that mindset with fundamentalist religious beliefs, intolerance towards new ideas, parents that tried to impose traditional roles on their children against their will, a lack of curiosity, shallowness and superficiality, and an inability to grasp irony or sarcasm. They'll make exceptions for an individual sensor once they "prove" themselves, but in general this is what people see.

    Now, are sensors really like that? Probably not, but it doesn't matter, because that's how people want to see them. And in an archetype system that's based on caricatures anyway... there's nothing to balance it out. Quite honestly, the whole idea of "sensors" and "intuitives" may only seem to exist because of confirmation bias. The whole thing could be in our heads.

    The main thing you need to know about this system isn't its intended use, it's the way people have ended up using it. It's mostly something that some people find helpful in uncovering the parts of themselves that they've repressed, and gives them images to project onto other people in order to help them rationalize out how they got where they are, and what kind of things they need to do to move forward. It allows people to rid themselves of guilt and other kinds of baggage by enabling them to blame their environment instead of themselves, so that they can change. Some people are programmed to blame themselves for everything, and really need something like this.

    Honestly, I think you'd have a much easier time here if you just changed your S to an N. You're intelligent enough that few would question it.
    I mean, think about it... you say you're the only one who has done things differently in your family. You could go a little further and say that's because you're creative and they're not. You could decide that you were a social reject because no one appreciated your creativity/uniqueness and differences from other people, looking down on you for not conforming to their way of doing things. You can see why that kind of perspective would be appealing, right?

    Do you see what I'm getting at here?
    That was a fantastic post.

    It's certainly has be tempting to go down the whole "I'm different from these people. They just don't get me. I'm on a good path, they just don't realise it." and in some ways there's truth in that. I am different to my family members, but I don't think it's down to sensor/intuition. It's additional factors outside the basic model that is MBTI or cognitive functions.

    Anyhow I don't think I'd ever want to change to an intuitive based on two principles.

    1. I'd be intellectually and emotionally dishonest.
    2. Eh... I've constantly had the compulsion to defend the underdog, even if it meant going against the majority.

    The idea of creating a whole new persona in order to test confirmation bias has occured to me before, doing what YourLocalJesus essentially did to observe changes in perception and responses. MBTI (tm), Enneagram, and other personality matrices - Typology Central

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I don't automatically associate N with creative. I associate it more with analytical and introspective.
    What would sensing be?
    Those are the two traits I identify with most, more so than empathy and sympathy despite my desires for the latter.

  9. #29
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    How so?
    Well, I noticed that when I would talk to people on here about sensing, the traits you see described on typical MBTI websites somehow got twisted into negative forms, and a bunch of emotional baggage (mostly from INPs who believe their parents were SJs) got added into the mix. It was impossible to confront them about it, because if you tried, they'd admit that not all sensors are like this. But they'd still tend to apply that perspective to situations. It didn't matter if you got through to them via reason, they'd still be biased in that direction unconsciously for other reasons. So essentially, we're stuck with a flawed picture painted in a way that favors Intuitives, because that's what ended up being the most comforting and useful for the majority of the systems users. Sometimes truth has nothing to do with what people see, or even what they need to see.
    Maybe you should do that.
    Okay, I don't think MBTI works as well as people think it does. I think it's meant to be a self-development tool only, and doesn't work well when applied to other people, or otherwise used in an objective way. It especially shouldn't be used to describe groups, because it's not designed for that at all. It doesn't hold up to that kind of pressure.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    2. Eh... I've constantly had the compulsion to defend the underdog, even if it meant going against the majority.
    this is an interesting thing for you to say because most people in the world ARE "S"...."N"s are actually the rarer ones, the underdog as you say, there just are more on this site

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