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  1. #11
    See Right Through Me Bubbles's Avatar
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    What is it about INFPs that makes them doubt their type? It happens so often, sounds almost like a prerequisite to be one.

    A lot of great advice has already been said here, but I'd also like to ask, do you know your enneagram type? As BlackCat said earlier, most INFPs are 4s, and many profiles seem biased towards that type. We may be INFPs, but we're not all the same--we're still individuals. What makes us the same is how our functions work, and different functions are stronger in different INFPs. For example, your Te seems far better than mine; your opening post was very coherent and to-the-point.

    And here's a hug. Low self esteem doesn't have to last forever. Having gone through it myself, I just want to let you know that INFPs especially have a problem with obsessing over negative feelings. But on the flip side? The positive ones come off so much stronger, too. Imagine feeling just as intensely as you do, right now, but because you feel wonderful inside. It's the Fi, I think. It makes us so vulnerable to our emotions sometimes. So you're not alone!

    And one more thing. Ti seems scary, but it's not. If you meet the right Thinkers, it can be a lot of fun. You can gain a lot from it.
    4w3, IEI, so/sx/sp, female, and Cancer sign.

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  2. #12
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jane View Post
    BlackCat: I'm aware that depression might be mucking things up, but even without it, I would still need to develop some positive attributes. I thought I would come here for help on that, since I've noticed so many bright and talented posters on this forum. I know NTs, but no ENTs. I'm kind of curious about what an ENTJ would get out of us too. I'm sure that, as a very thinking feeler, you have a lot of deep insight to contribute.
    Well get to work with that tertiary temptation. You have the tools and the knowledge, so just do it. I'm pretty sure the only way you pull yourself out of it is by use of the 2ndary function, your Ne. If you start consciously using that then eventually you will get out of it.

    As for ENTJs, it's just a bit odd at first if you aren't used to them. They like having us around because of our non judgmental attitude, they won't feel pressured to try to impress us or anything like that. Plus we reinforce and embrace each other's weak sides, and from that both partners won't be afraid of expressing their most vulnerable sides of them (Te for the INFP, Fi for the ENTJ). The two partners will naturally like seeing the other making an effort to use their inferior (it's an unconscious feeling). It's a very good friendship, but as for relationships it can either be a complete disaster or a total success. It depends on how in touch the INFP is with their T side, and the ENTJ with their F side. Having those traits helps a good deal in friendship as well. Here's a link, if you're female you can relate to the non gender specific points made here. http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...rspective.html

    I love talking about relationships and relationship theory.

    But yes. Have you researched your problems on the net? Such as depression, low self esteem, etc?
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  3. #13
    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
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    Fluffywolf: Yeah, I probably shouldn't worry too much about how people respond to my posts, but I'm very aware of how whiny and self-pitying they seem (and well might be). I don't want a bunch of my INFP whoa-is-meisms making others (especially NFs) upset. It's not all bad - I don't generally express my anxieties, so I guess this is just an outpouring. Honestly, I'm a little embarrassed by and hypersensitive to my emotions when they become effusive. However, I've been told that I come off stoic, relaxed or even stoned! Jeez.

    Bubbles: I took two enneagram tests and both times the 5 and 4 scores were really close - once 5 was higher, the other time 4 was higher. But if I'm honest, 4 fits me far better than 5. I'm certainly no 8w9 like BlackCat (which is so very cool to me - I thought really assertive INFPs were non-existent). I thought my post rambled too much, but I guess I structured it with Te. Te often helps me gloss over my faults and makes me appear more competent than I am at work and school; it's probably my favorite function as it's the only one that seems to serve me well (though it is a real pain to use and I don't have the best command of it). I found your post easy to read and well organized; I don't see a missing Te, I guess. I think positive Fi would be overwhelming. How does it work? *pokes Bubbles' brain* I really admire positive people, even if I can't often understand them. Is there a secret society for positive INFPs where they learn to see bunnies in the clouds? Is there a secret handshake? Do they serve kool-aid? :crazy:

    BlackCat: Yes, sir! I will work on my Ne. I like INTJs because we share Fi and Te - I guess I could see the same with ENTJs (as I imagine them). I read the thread and think the INFP/ENTJ combination seems interesting. Maybe when I meet one, I'll post my thoughts. My Fi is not good at reading people at the moment (I feel separated from their thoughts and feelings by a brick wall - even when they are leaking tertiary Fi and busting inferior Fe all over the place). Maybe if I develop my strengths (though, honestly, the idea of me having insight into people's thoughts and feelings is laughable to me) I can be of better use to the Ts of the world. As it is, I have no idea why NTs or STs even like me (largely not because I'm an INFP, but because I'm DENSE and SIMPLE) - they might as well be talking to themselves; they'd probably come up with solutions or conclusions that way. If all they need is for someone to listen and respond so they can sort out their thoughts, maybe they should consider getting parrots. Ugh. I realize how bitter that sounds.

    For me, talking to the Ts I know is kind of like talking to intellectual gods; they have a purity of consciousnesses, can approach and solve problems with clarity and ease, and can be incredibly incisive. They also *know* they're gods; they know they are superior and trust their judgments far above those of others. I could see how they would want to exchange ideas with other gods, but instead they choose to talk with a lowly mortal. So they discuss their ideas and thoughts, looking for clarity and truth - but, honestly, why would they do this with me? It's hopeless to contribute since they usually choose the topic of discussion, or I feel compelled to choose one they relate to because they have no real interest in anything I like - which is precious little these days - and don't seem willing to even pretend to be enthusiastic about anything I say (though I'm sure they feign tolerance). When the conversation is general, I struggle to keep up with their thoughts and am always wrong, though I feel the need to defend what I say since I say things without thinking in order to just contribute anything - so I'm not just being talked *at*. I don't get how this is productive for anyone involved. I'm sure my irrationality and lack of knowledge irritates them as much as the whole set up wounds me. Why do they do this and continue to do it? Do ISTs or INTs have any insight into this?

    Ugh. There we go again. Another emotional post. Sorry, it's just free-flowing Fi. I'll leave it up, but I'm certainly not trying to offend your 8w9 sensibilities. There you were trying to get me to pull myself up by my bootstraps, and I just ended up falling back down. Don't worry, though. I take your advice to heart and will try to improve myself via Ne and reduce the influence of my overreactive Si. Thank you for the words of strength. I like your directing tone especially, as it is grounding to me. I may find in myself a healthy INFP yet.

  4. #14
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    You seem almost frantic in your posts. Take a break. Go for a long drive with the windows down.

  5. #15
    WTF is this dude saying? A Schnitzel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by candylandjoe View Post
    You seem almost frantic in your posts. Take a break. Go for a long drive with the windows down.
    +1

    Some light exercise would also clear the mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    sheesh humans! for realz

  6. #16
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jane View Post
    For me, talking to the Ts I know is kind of like talking to intellectual gods; they have a purity of consciousnesses, can approach and solve problems with clarity and ease, and can be incredibly incisive. They also *know* they're gods; they know they are superior and trust their judgments far above those of others. I could see how they would want to exchange ideas with other gods, but instead they choose to talk with a lowly mortal. So they discuss their ideas and thoughts, looking for clarity and truth - but, honestly, why would they do this with me? It's hopeless to contribute since they usually choose the topic of discussion, or I feel compelled to choose one they relate to because they have no real interest in anything I like - which is precious little these days - and don't seem willing to even pretend to be enthusiastic about anything I say (though I'm sure they feign tolerance). When the conversation is general, I struggle to keep up with their thoughts and am always wrong, though I feel the need to defend what I say since I say things without thinking in order to just contribute anything - so I'm not just being talked *at*. I don't get how this is productive for anyone involved. I'm sure my irrationality and lack of knowledge irritates them as much as the whole set up wounds me. Why do they do this and continue to do it? Do ISTs or INTs have any insight into this?


    I know how you feel. I've only recently gotten past seeing NTs that way myself.

    I wish I had something more to offer, but all I can tell you is to try and believe Ts when they say you contribute something. That's especially important if you don't have faith in your own contributions. They don't mince words, and wouldn't say something just to be nice. That's the best thing about them.
    Ugh. There we go again. Another emotional post. Sorry, it's just free-flowing Fi. I'll leave it up, but I'm certainly not trying to offend your 8w9 sensibilities. There you were trying to get me to pull myself up by my bootstraps, and I just ended up falling back down.
    You really aren't overdoing it at all. I like the way you express your Fi. You're very aware of how you come across, and extremely considerate. I think I relate to you on a lot of levels because I'm also a 4w5.

    You might want to know that I usually don't like INFPs very much, and usually don't feel a lot of compassion for their problems, because they seem arrogantly certain that their own values apply for everyone and everything. On top of that, they're usually dismissive of any kind of logic or values that oppose their own, regardless of how little sense their own views make. You're different, though. You're polite, conscientious, and evoke genuine concern and understanding from me. I like the way you think.

    Really, please accept yourself. You're not disgusting, you're not a failure. You're a real person, you have value, and you're not invalid.

  7. #17
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jane View Post
    Bubbles:
    You are definitely a 4w5 INFP according to what you put then. Woo hoo! One more thing you can relate to other INFPs about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane View Post
    BlackCat: Yes, sir! I will work on my Ne. I like INTJs because we share Fi and Te - I guess I could see the same with ENTJs (as I imagine them). I read the thread and think the INFP/ENTJ combination seems interesting. Maybe when I meet one, I'll post my thoughts. My Fi is not good at reading people at the moment (I feel separated from their thoughts and feelings by a brick wall - even when they are leaking tertiary Fi and busting inferior Fe all over the place). Maybe if I develop my strengths (though, honestly, the idea of me having insight into people's thoughts and feelings is laughable to me) I can be of better use to the Ts of the world. As it is, I have no idea why NTs or STs even like me (largely not because I'm an INFP, but because I'm DENSE and SIMPLE)
    It's odd that you don't have insight into people's feelings... But this all has to do with that tertiary temptation thing and your lack of Ne. Like... all of these problems you've listed is because of that. This is because you lack your natural extroverted attitude (Ne), you are pretty much totally inward with Fi and Si. This may be why you say you're dense and simple.

    For me, talking to the Ts I know... stuff
    Look at it this way, reverse the argument and come from their side. "Why is this girl even talking to me? I can't really relate to her emotions as well as another feeler could, so why should she even talk to me? I'm of no use to her". That obviously isn't true either, in the same sense that us not benefiting Ts isn't a true statement. They continue to do it because that's what they do.

    With my experience with Ts, even if I can't relate to what they're talking about on the intellectual level that they are on, I can still ask questions and add in comments about what they talk about when they come up with a topic. Ask them questions about it, most thinkers love to teach others about their knowledge and enlighten others. Questioning and commenting lets them know that you're interested. You contribute your unique viewpoint of the world and of issues to them. You broaden their horizons.

    I recommend talking to an ISTJ or INTJ... They seem to get along with us INFPs very well (we can relate etc). That may help you get over your feelings of incompetence from thinkers.

    Ugh. There we go again. Another emotional post. Sorry, it's just free-flowing Fi. I'll leave it up, but I'm certainly not trying to offend your 8w9 sensibilities. There you were trying to get me to pull myself up by my bootstraps, and I just ended up falling back down. Don't worry, though. I take your advice to heart and will try to improve myself via Ne and reduce the influence of my overreactive Si. Thank you for the words of strength. I like your directing tone especially, as it is grounding to me. I may find in myself a healthy INFP yet.
    It's fine to be emotional. There is no "emotion police". It's not like a scary INTP is gonna eat you for being emotional. Pull yourself up again, and ask yourself "why is my mind doing this? Why is it influencing my actions like this? Why must I be this way if I know that I can be a better person?"

    Thanks for the complements. Directing tone etc. Also... 8w9 sensibilities? Eh?
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  8. #18
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jane View Post
    For me, talking to the Ts I know is kind of like talking to intellectual gods[...]
    Why do they do this and continue to do it? Do ISTs or INTs have any insight into this?
    Pfft. I don't think I'm a god, though I do have a healthy bit of arrogance and narcissism. And honestly, a lot of times I can't solve problems, simply because I'm not in touch with my F. I don't know what it is that I actually want, my values, etc. I can sometimes even be detached from my own emotional state, which you can recognize and help me with. I could probably solve the technicalities of any problem, but the why eludes me. Why would I want to even do anything at all, as opposed to sit in my room and detachedly think all day? You can draw out my inferior feeling function. You can get me to come out of my shell and follow my emotions more. You can give me a cause, a motivation to actually do stuff. The difference is quite apparent when in a group of Ts, to a group with Fs, and I wouldn't go back to the former.

    Well that's my thoughts on zee issue n stuff.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  9. #19
    See Right Through Me Bubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Pfft. I don't think I'm a god,
    Really, Costrin?

    though I do have a healthy bit of arrogance and narcissism.
    Ah, I see. Just checking.

    Positivity comes differently to different people. Um...how to explain it... It depends on what you let your mind wander onto. I used to constantly be on alert when around other people; I assumed they were judging me, and if they weren't, I assumed it was because I was uninteresting. See, my mistake here was assuming. The more I worried about what I didn't know, the more frantic and upset I got. That's where Ne comes in. If you develop it, figure out how to sense other people's moods, you don't secondguess as much. I don't mean it in a bright-light-everything-is-clear kind of way, more in a way that you become familiar with other people and their mannerisms. Hm, I'll think about it and add more later, ok?

    EDIT: Okay. Maybe it would help if you explained why you are in such a pessimistic loop. It occurs to me that I'm being me-specific here, and that it's not going to help you at all if you have different problems. Also, Edahn's post is pretty true as well...typology can help, but in reality, problems are problems no matter what type you are. We just wanna help!
    4w3, IEI, so/sx/sp, female, and Cancer sign.

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    DISCLAIMER: If I offend you, I'm 99.9% sure it's unintentional. So be sure to let me know, m'kay? (And yes, an INFP would stick this in their signature, lol.)

  10. #20
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Advice: ignore typology and work on the areas of your life that need work.


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