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  1. #1
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Default Fe: Cultural Influences?

    So-first please forgive me-I am Fe blind. I really dont understand it well so I dont mean to offend in any way as I would very much like to understand it better.

    If Fe in an individual reflects the caring inherent in societal norms, social expectations, and social harmony, I would expect that you would see Fe users have fairly similiar ideas about certain topics if they were from the same society.

    But if you have two Fe users from very different societies, they may have VERY different ideas about what is moral, correct, expected or best for society based upon what they say growing up.

    For instance folks who rely on Fe from the following locations:

    1) Taiwan
    2) Saudi Arabia
    3) The netherlands
    4) Alvarado, Texas in the US (my hometown)

    might have very different views on topics such as the death penalty, abortion, sex before marriage, or how to deal with the homeless.

    Is this accurate?

    How do you determine who is correct and what is right for society and we become more globalized?

  2. #2
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    If Fe in an individual reflects the caring inherent in societal norms, social expectations, and social harmony, I would expect that you would see Fe users have fairly similiar ideas about certain topics if they were from the same society.
    Are we only discussing Fe primaries here?

    Anyway, I wouldn't say the above is necessarily true. Expression of Fe will differ based on other functions. For example, an Si user can have a whole different perspective from an Ni user in the same environment.

    How do you determine who is correct and what is right for society and we become more globalized?
    I don't know if any are really "correct."

  3. #3
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    How do you determine who is correct and what is right for society and we become more globalized?
    Fe doesn't reflect what's "correct," it reflects what a community considers appropriate. My guess, though, is that globalization will lead people to adopt the most "open" values. A push towards more stringent values usually results in those people retreating to a smaller area. Opening up to trade generally results in relaxation and dilution of local values.

  4. #4
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I forget where, but I (think I) remember reading ENFJs have trouble when they move into different cultures.

    Everyone else does too. What they call "culture shock", when you see something regarded by the local people as normal but which you just cannot accept as "rational". But people who are used to setting the tone for groups of other people may feel it harder.

    If that's what Fe does, I mean. Set the feeling tone for other people.

  5. #5
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Fe doesn't just think in broad-sweeping cultural forms. it is that is has to use external clues to get at the inside of feeling. that its perception of externalities, the meaning of them, is what causes it to feel. it sees the Other by looking for clues that show/gesture at/toward what it is feeling, and then using its own experience and its own identification with those gestures to WEAR the feeling, borrow it, etc, letting it wash over the Fe user for a while.

    Si people do this in a much more concrete way, the meaning is more stable, grounded, and generally much slower. it is physical and acted out more materially. but it's still Fe and signs can elicit strong reactions.

    Ni people do this much more haphazardly (so it seems). they have their own system of meaning that is generally much more wild, much more divergent, and much more twisted than that of an Si type (from normative mentation). or perhaps better said, they are much more unpredictable, they skip steps, make stranger leaps, etc.

    upbringing for either type is important in determining what kind of things are stored in the introverted perception matrix/network of associations, meanings, relevencies, etc. kids with fucked up upbringings are who end up in very skewed and strange cultural circumstances will reflect this regardless of whether they're Si or Ni. Ni just mutates more easily and often.

  6. #6
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    If that's what Fe does, I mean. Set the feeling tone for other people.
    Fe tries to lock on and manage the articulation of feeling, yes. it is one of the ones in which it feels comfortable, feels that it understands what is going on. by shifting the articulation or the gesture-language to a more known place, it feels like it has a better grasp of what is being said, what is being felt, and how to proceed delicately or with a specific objective/agenda in mind. it is just more skilled and more capable in such instances.

    it's not trying to set the tone per se, to control the feelings of others or to sand down the rough edges of feeling to promote harmony. it is also trying to communicate feeling amongst others and promote ARTICULATION so others can act accordingly and stop causing flare-ups for themselves and others. trying to clean up the emotional environment and get rid of waste, inefficiency, poor relational communication.

    but all meaning for its actions totally depends on what it is trying to achieve, which has little uniformity across the spectrum of Fe users and is almost TOTALLY contextual/situational. i like feeling, sometimes i feel like an emotional ambulance chaser. i just want to re-focus it (very nf) on what i find to be the important things, which at times can make me a bit tyrannical yes, but seriously, i understand he cut you off, but do something better than spend all day thinking about it, etc. but by all means, take your time if you need to.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Considering that upbringing has a great impact on the individual regardless of MBTI (Afterall it's only a basic model) there isn't much meaning derived from figuring out this. It'll impact all the other functions in a similar fashion, not just Fe.

    Fe is often labelled as concern with cultural norms and expectations but this is mostly due to Fe being concerned with social harmony. That's it.

    Everything is derived from social harmony, and it just so happens that following and upholding popular social norms will reduce conflict. (Bit of a state the obvious statement there.)

    Depending on other values believed by the individual, they might not follow a certain path because they don't believe it's the best way forward to universal harmony (Extremely vague, and interpreted differently by all). Someone might not follow a negative trend because they understand that ultimately this is a disaster in terms of harmony.

  8. #8
    Member Shaggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Are we only discussing Fe primaries here?

    Anyway, I wouldn't say the above is necessarily true. Expression of Fe will differ based on other functions. For example, an Si user can have a whole different perspective from an Ni user in the same environment.


    I don't know if any are really "correct."
    I completely agree with this. I live with an ESFJ. Ni can see the potental in the socially acceptable morals which could influence our approach towards the future. The Si user would desire time to live within the culture for any influential changes to take place.

    We came from two different lifestyles and it wasn't easy for us to see eye to eye on things. It was hard to sit back and watch a trainwreck unfold, but sometimes it's the only way for us to grow together.

  9. #9
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
    I completely agree with this. I live with an ESFJ. Ni can see the potental in the socially acceptable morals which could influence our approach towards the future. The Si user would desire time to live within the culture for any influential changes to take place.
    Exactly.

    Slight tangent here: I think there are shifts going on in American culture -- SFJ was formerly connected to some old norms and those because 'signifiers" to people of what SJ must be like. But with Fe norms change, ESFJs are changing with them and ISFJs are growing up with a new "base" environment and so future generations might look different.

    SFJ basically needs to be immersed in the culture and absorb it in order for the norms to change for them. (and they are aware of this. In religious circles, SFJs were big proponents of the "garbage in, garbage out" -- they are aware of their tendency to change based on changing norms, and so to avoid change they thought up front was wrong, they would refuse to associate with the new culture.)

    NFJ can see things from various paradigms without experiencing them first and can change hats as they see fit.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #10
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    Fe doesn't just think in broad-sweeping cultural forms. it is that is has to use external clues to get at the inside of feeling. that its perception of externalities, the meaning of them, is what causes it to feel. it sees the Other by looking for clues that show/gesture at/toward what it is feeling, and then using its own experience and its own identification with those gestures to WEAR the feeling, borrow it, etc, letting it wash over the Fe user for a while.

    Si people do this in a much more concrete way, the meaning is more stable, grounded, and generally much slower. it is physical and acted out more materially. but it's still Fe and signs can elicit strong reactions.
    Hm, quite interesting. I can relate to this most recently with my new g/f (best guess ISFJ, and a strong guess at that) and after reading through this a bit, it seems we both bond very well with Fe and much of our conversational bonding is based around it--we connect in conversation usually by talking out Fe matters about other people and while she sometimes uses phrases or keywords that she expects convey the whole thought, I often don't get it right away but after further elaboration it makes sense and we have that moment of clarity where we know we're on the same wavelength. I can tell she's a million times more adept at the productive use of Fe than I am though, and combined with her extremely adept Si abilities (which I've seen a lot already) it makes her the perfect chameleon for commanding respect in social situations.
    intp | type 9w1 sp/sx/so

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