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  1. #61
    Senior Member Kungpowish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    My experience too.

    I will add that with the particular ENFJ males I know, they seem amused by my Fi & it's bluntness. They think it is funny that I am "mean" (lack of Fe), which is cool as other people may feel I'm abrasive. I suppose I haven't had too much Fe & Fi clashing with them because they just have a great sense of humor.
    Well, most of us can tell what someone means by something. So as long as someone is not actually mean yeah it can be fun. But some Fi people are actually mean, or at least don't seem to care about the feelings of those around them, that's not funny.
    -There is nothing either good nor ill but thinking makes it so.

  2. #62
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kungpowish View Post
    Well, most of us can tell what someone means by something. So as long as someone is not actually mean yeah it can be fun. But some Fi people are actually mean, or at least don't seem to care about the feelings of those around them, that's not funny.
    Well, I'm not mean like that....more ornery & feisty, and I can have a dry humor that they actually get.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #63
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    I remember when my ENFJ friend said something like "Oh I get it now, you actually MEAN what you say!" At the time I found that a very odd statement [why yes, of course, I meant what I said, don't people normally mean what they say???] I also remember a comment like "I'm not as good as you" which I contextually interpreted along the lines of "I am not as saintly as you and I can't keep up with/operate on the level of your Fi". But there were group situations where my Fi didn't do what Fe deemed appropriate, and other times where my deeply felt Fi feelings were criticized for not sounding "convincing enough." In reference to the "not sounding convincing", I remember thinking at the time "I hope you never have to understand where I'm at right now or where that statement came from or why it sounded the way it did". Those were not pretty times. Spending time with that ENFJ was great, but the situations I was around before that were definitely not F_ positive. Physics grad school is NOT a good place for NF's, or having F, or expressing/manifesting F.

  4. #64
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    I really like and relate to your explanation, Udog. I find that I'm considered rather intense (even when totally quiet) and vaguely insane though well-meaning. INFP guys aren't hard to break (they're tough mentally), but I think my Fe-primary makes them feel like they're being roasted alive! Having said that, I think ENFJs and INFPs can be very happy together. (And I must admit to having had more than a few INFP boy crushes too...)
    Personally, I could see ENFJ being a viable possibility for me, but unlike with INFJs and ENFPs I have no real-life experience to draw from. I know from my experiences with INFJs that I would have a couple of caveats and red flags to watch out for. Fi + Fe works wonderfully when it works, but it's a pretty big chasm to cross!

    I think part of the reason the xxTP connection works is because they have Fe, so they understand where the ENFJ is coming from, but generally lack intense empathy. They get you, they care, but they don't feel with you. Chances of getting overwhelmed are slim and rare.

    INFPs, when we are aware of someone's emotions at all, usually have pretty intense empathy. Luckily, many INFPs excel at absorbing and dealing with that kind of stuff, which is what I think makes the ENFJ/INFP relationship very intimate at that level. INFPs role with the punches with an ENFJ.

    The problem is that in a relationship, I can see those blows chipping away at my defenses, bit by bit. Doubly true if directed at me. I'd need the ENFJ to help build those back up during the happier times, for sure. Without that, eventually they'd punch through, and yeah, I can't imagine that being very pleasant at all. For me, it would be death by one thousand needles vs being flame-broiled, though.

    In the other direction, there is a tendency for the INFP to bury emotions. We feel them, but don't express them. We don't always hold them in out of nobility, either, but sometimes we like to think we are. The ENFJ needs and deserves to have them expressed. This problem is certainly more common in the INFP male, who probably learned at an early age to hide emotions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    A lot of me wishes I could end up marrying an ENFJ someday, but as a male INFP there's definitely factors making that harder/less likely.
    Just remember, at the end of the day you gotta throw away the theory. It's not INFP(m) and a ENFJ(f)... it's just you and the lady you care for. MBTI doesn't have statistics for that sort of thing.

  5. #65
    Senior Member SpottingTrains's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    ENFJ's tend to very much adapt themselves to the collective social situation, but seem to really notch up the intensity one -on-one. Especially when they really want to understand someone and "get" who they are as a person.
    I agree completely with this. I love one to one conversations and I think I do come off as having a rather intense aura.
    "That's the thing about girls. Every time they do something pretty, even if they're not much to look at, or even if they're sort of stupid, you fall half in love with them, and then you never know where the hell you are. Girls. Jesus Christ. They can drive you crazy. They really can."

  6. #66
    Senior Member chris1207's Avatar
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    I think that ENFJ's have to learn to not be so intense and sometimes overbearing and sometimes controlling. They could definitely lose the infp that way. What are some negatives about INFP's? PPL don't talk about those too much, I assume, because INFP's don't have a tendency to rile ppl up. They just do their own thing...
    "... you think deeply about stuff [that] nobody cares about and hardly anybody can understand you." ~ Peguy talking about Ni users. So true.

  7. #67
    Senior Member The Grand Chameleon's Avatar
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    I think that ENFJ's have to learn to not be so intense and sometimes overbearing and sometimes controlling.
    A healthy ENFJ must learn tact, so that he/she might become unhealthy and see these, "weaknesses" for what they really are: tools. Give people what they want to see in you, and they will come to you.
    "In the game of chess, you can never let your opponent see your pieces."

  8. #68
    Member g_vartan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris1207 View Post
    I think that ENFJ's have to learn to not be so intense and sometimes overbearing and sometimes controlling. They could definitely lose the infp that way.
    This also happened in my relationship with an INTP. I don't know if I can do this; I wish I can. I can definitely be intense/passionate. It's so rare for me to find someone that I *really* like that when I do, I kinda go ga-ga It's really hard to reign it in sometimes.

  9. #69
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I'm extremely particular too, G. Or simply Ni-oblivious until something yanks my head around. That's how I met my ISTP and ENTP ex-bfs. I had no intention of liking either one of them, but they made themselves material, and I fell hard for both of them. It's nice when you can just be yourself and no one's criticizing you.

    I liked them both because not only could they handle my high octane nature, they seemed to encourage it. Not in a bad way either. Just seemed to like the wall of fire.

    I had an INTP bf, and I think he saw me in both a positive and negative way - I think ultimately he decided that I was too much. That was very disappointing, and I felt undermined because I never pointed that finger at him. It seemed ludicrous too when he said this to me and then went after ESTxs who are forces of nature.

    To be so judged, to be determined as not as great as they thought you were... yes. That hurts. That hurts quite a lot. I knew an INTP that I really liked who didn't mind me at all - I think he saw me very clearly for what I was - but he was married.

    I feel that ENFJs are the true shadow of ISTPs - we're reflecting their lower spectrum Fe heat. We're the flip side of a very intense calm type. The mayhem has to go SOMEWHERE...
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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  10. #70
    Member g_vartan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    ...I had an INTP bf, and I think he saw me in both a positive and negative way - I think ultimately he decided that I was too much. That was very disappointing, and I felt undermined because I never pointed that finger at him...

    To be so judged, to be determined as not as great as they thought you were... yes. That hurts. That hurts quite a lot...

    I feel that ENFJs are the true shadow of ISTPs - we're reflecting their lower spectrum Fe heat. We're the flip side of a very intense calm type. The mayhem has to go SOMEWHERE...
    This really hit home for me. This is exactly what occurred to me as well. My self-esteem took a real hit as I opened up to him as I have never done before, only to be hit where I am emotionally vulnerable. That experience forever changed me. I'm more logical, more guarded, and more deliberate/thoughtful now because of this experience. But I'm afraid I lost my idealism and romantic innocence.

    I'm mad at myself that I can't let go of this relationship, i.e., no communication, no romantic feelings. Perhaps ENFJs have a bit of masochist to them --- I see the best in others, their potential, and make excuses or justifications for their bad behavior or criticisms. I still hope that things could change; he has made effort to show me that he's made progress. But I'm not sure if one could really re-start a relationship with someone whose broke your heart.

    "ENFJs know and appreciate people. Like most NFs, (and Feelers in general), they are apt to neglect themselves and their own needs for the needs of others. They have thinner psychological boundaries than most, and are at risk for being hurt or even abused by less sensitive people."

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