[NF] Why NFs pity themselves so much ?

[speculative]

Yea, why do they ? Life is unique and noone gets what he has paid for

In life, you don't get what you paid for - you get what you accept...

 

[heart]

Yea, why do they ? Life is unique and noone gets what he has paid for

Oh the irony...

 

[yenom]

Well, I rarely hang out here but this is what I think.

NTs are just as emotional as NFs. But NTs are more likely going to think over them and rationize it, rather than emote and talk about it. I really don't understand other people's emotions, and i don't understand my own either. So I prefer to not deal with them and let them fade away.

To say that NTs have no emotions is false, because NTs too have the limbic system in their brain and this is the requirement for emotional learning.
But when asked what do we feel in certain situations, or at any figiven moment, we really have no answer.

If you really want a breakdown between thinking and feeling, I think that is impossible. Everything in the end are just words and information.

Not all problems can be solved with logic. Problems that can't be solved increases the negitive thinking in the brain. And one way to remove them is to talk it over and find a solution with someone else.

 

[Gengar]

@ OP

Seriously, did you open this thread because you were genuinely interested or because you wanted to start a huge argument? :O

 

[Virtual ghost]

@ OP

Seriously, did you open this thread because you were genuinely interested or because you wanted to start a huge argument? :O

I presume you did not go through entire thread.

What would you say to me if I say "Both" ?


The thing is that I understand how NFs work on the outside but I know very little about how they work on the inside.

I have started a number of thread about this but all replies look shallow to me and people repeat things similar things over and over again. With which I am more or less familiar.

Another "problem" is that NF act very differently when they are in normal mode or when they are emotionally charged. So what they say in normal mode probably will not apply to situations when they are angry.

Which is the side I am far less familiar with. Since I have a trouble understanding the fact that someone can get so emotionally charged. When someone attacks him/her on verbal level.
I am pretty sure that this thread would not got so far in the case that the OP was some "normal" post and to be honest this thread has been quite insightful for me. Since the "insult" has triggered a part of NF they try to hide in many cases. Since they dislike conflict at least that is what they calaim in other threads.



I mean a person has the opinion it has. So what ?
Why do you feel so threatened?




I am perfectly aware of the fact I that I am coming as an arrogant asshole in this thread. But I am only trying to understand.

For example when I was 10 I already had the skill to move my mother to tears and I stll have a problem with the idea that a parent can be so fragile.

While I didn't do anything "special". I was just being rude and/or insensitive.

 

[Moiety]

Well, I rarely hang out here but this is what I think.

NTs are just as emotional as NFs. But NTs are more likely going to think over them and rationize it, rather than emote and talk about it. I really don't understand other people's emotions, and i don't understand my own either. So I prefer to not deal with them and let them fade away.

To say that NTs have no emotions is false, because NTs too have the limbic system in their brain and this is the requirement for emotional learning.
But when asked what do we feel in certain situations, or at any figiven moment, we really have no answer.

If you really want a breakdown between thinking and feeling, I think that is impossible. Everything in the end are just words and information.

Not all problems can be solved with logic. Problems that can't be solved increases the negitive thinking in the brain. And one way to remove them is to talk it over and find a solution with someone else.

Very good post Cloud.

 

[Orangey]

I presume you did not go through entire thread.

What would you say to me if I say "Both" ?


The thing is that I understand how NFs work on the outside but I know very little about how they work on the inside.

I have started a number of thread about this but all replies look shallow to me and people repeat things similar things over and over again. With which I am more or less familiar.

Another "problem" is that NF act very differently when they are in normal mode or when they are emotionally charged. So what they say in normal mode probably will not apply to situations when they are angry.

Which is the side I am far less familiar with. Since I have a trouble understanding the fact that someone can get so emotionally charged. When someone attacks him/her on verbal level.
I am pretty sure that this thread would not got so far in the case that the OP was some "normal" post and to be honest this thread has been quite insightful for me. Since the "insult" has triggered a part of NF they try to hide in many cases. Since they dislike conflict at least that is what they calaim in other threads.



I mean a person has the opinion it has. So what ?
Why do you feel so threatened?




I am perfectly aware of the fact I that I am coming as an arrogant asshole in this thread. But I am only trying to understand.

For example when I was 10 I already had the skill to move my mother to tears and I stll have a problem with the idea that a parent can be so fragile.

While I didn't do anything "special". I was just being rude and/or insensitive.

Hmmm...so am I to understand that you wish to provoke the NFs to anger, only to then ask them why they are angry (because you supposedly don't understand)? Now I don't understand...

 

[Virtual ghost]

Hmmm...so am I to understand that you wish to provoke the NFs to anger, only to then ask them why they are angry (because you supposedly don't understand)? Now I don't understand...

Well, I was planning to provoke a response but I did not expect that I will get so many replys and this level of disagreement. But I would dare to say that some parts were insightful.

Also I said at the beginning of the thread that I wasn't fully honest with the OP.


I did it becuse I am not interested in their loving and carring "mantle" which they tend to show so often. Since I know that there is much more in there.
Especially in the case of NFPs.



Does this make sense to you ?

 

[Orangey]

Perhaps I would understand better if you revealed the insight that you managed to glean from the reactions in this thread. I'm curious to hear what it is.

 

[heart]

Re: post 285. If you haven't tried it, you might find therapy a more valid and productive way to answer these questions you express here. Sincerely.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Perhaps I would understand better if you revealed the insight that you managed to glean from the reactions in this thread. I'm curious to hear what it is.

The differences between NFPs and NFJs and the story who feels what.


A number of links and new terms came up.


Form this thread it looks that what NT could see something as self pity is just a way NF sort their feelings. This occured to me but I didnt have any real insights. But it was not thinking that this is so important for them.
Since don't relate to that trait. Since my emotional exchanges with others are minimal.



That NTPs will be somewhat baffled by my apprach.
While NTJ did not interfere for some reason. Maybe the are just scaning or they just don't care.

If you haven't tried it, you might find therapy a more valid and productive way to answer these questions you express here. Sincerely.

In the case this is directed at me.

There is no point in doing that. Since we are in good realations and always have been.
But she needed time to get used to having a son like me and I have learned to keep my mouth shut. Alos I have learned how to use less Te in certain sitations. The problem does not exist anymore.

 

[Athenian200]

Another "problem" is that NF act very differently when they are in normal mode or when they are emotionally charged. So what they say in normal mode probably will not apply to situations when they are angry.

Which is the side I am far less familiar with. Since I have a trouble understanding the fact that someone can get so emotionally charged. When someone attacks him/her on verbal level.
I am pretty sure that this thread would not got so far in the case that the OP was some "normal" post and to be honest this thread has been quite insightful for me. Since the "insult" has triggered a part of NF they try to hide in many cases.

Aha! Yes, I can see what you were trying to do here. Trying different things to evoke a particular response so you can figure out both the trigger, and the way the altered state modifies their response to stimuli. You should know that I've done the same thing to NTs in some cases... especially when I was a lot younger. They act differently when angry as well.

I am perfectly aware of the fact I that I am coming as an arrogant asshole in this thread. But I am only trying to understand.

For example when I was 10 I already had the skill to move my mother to tears and I stll have a problem with the idea that a parent can be so fragile.

While I didn't do anything "special". I was just being rude and/or insensitive.

This is kind of interesting. You were AWARE that you were coming across that way? Weird, even I didn't notice it until you pointed it out. I guess I'm used to dismissing stuff like that as immaturity/obliviousness and not reacting to it. It's possible that I've gotten too good at setting the "IgnoreEmotionalContext()" flag when I see "NT" in a person's type. It's scary how much I miss sometimes.

What's interesting about this is... you aren't sounding like an NT. At all. You sound more like a really damaged F. NTs tend to be genuinely oblivious. You're not, you've just reached a point where you enjoy denying people the emotional responses they want, and amusing yourself by watching their reaction to your coldness. Getting a kind of thrill out of using emotional awareness while doing inhumane research.

In fact, I kind of think you might be an INFx with Enneagram type 5 or 8... just not a very healthy one.

 

[Virtual ghost]

This is kind of interesting. You were AWARE that you were coming across that way? Weird, even I didn't notice it until you pointed it out. I guess I'm used to dismissing stuff like that as immaturity/obliviousness and not reacting to it. It's possible that I've gotten too good at setting the "IgnoreEmotionalContext()" flag when I see "NT" in a person's type. It's scary how much I miss sometimes.

What's interesting about this is... you aren't sounding like an NT. At all. You sound more like a really damaged F. NTs tend to be genuinely oblivious. You're not, you've just reached a point where you enjoy denying people the emotional responses they want, and amusing yourself by watching their reaction to your coldness. Getting a kind of thrill out of using emotional awareness while doing inhumane research.

In fact, I kind of think you might be an INFx with Enneagram type 5 or 8... just not a very healthy one.

I can understand why you would say this.

But the thing that I was more of less oblivious about emotions for the last quarter of the century. The reason why I look like this is becuse my questions and dilemmas about emotions have accumulated. So this is why this is the main topic for me.
Which is why I am forcing the topic all over the forum.
I know I have a weakness in understanding of emotions. (that is main reason why I am here in the first place)
Plus I can get an insight without effecting my environment this way. What means that it will be more objective. (probably)


As for mother thing:well it was hard to miss that. I mean I would be blind/deaf not see a person sitting in the kitchen and crying for 30 minutes.

Plus the there was a ESFJ garandmother around to give me lections on how mean I was towards her or someone. This sound like I was really bad towards my mother but entire thing comes down to using a harsh laguage in a wrong moment(s).


I am sorry but this was impossible to miss.




As for the thread.
What? You did not noticed that this thread is reated badly and people are saying that I am provoking just for the sake of doing it? Or that they say it in a more subtile way in some posts.

When I see that kind of reaction I usually try to smooth things out. (But not always)
Since my social contact are very limited I have to protect them.


Plus rep. which you didn't saw.


Sorry, but you will have to try harder to convince me that I am a feeler.

 

[Athenian200]

I can understand why you would say this.

But the thing that I was more of less oblivious about emotions for the last quarter of the century. The reason why I look like this is becuse my questions and dilemmas about emotions have accumulated. So this is why this is the main topic for me.
Which is why I am forcing the topic all over the forum.
I know I have a weakness in understanding of emotions. (that is main reason why I am here in the first place)
Plus I can get an insight without effecting my environment what means that it will be more objective. (probably)


As for mother thing:well it was hard to miss that. I mean I would be blind/deaf not see a person sitting in the kitchen and crying for 30 minutes.

Plus the there was a ESFJ garandmother around to give me lections on how mean I was towards her or someone. This sound like I was really bad towards my mother but entire thing comes down to using a harsh laguage in a wrong moment(s).


I am sorry but this was impossible to miss.

Okay, that explains that.

As for the thread.
What? You did not noticed that this thread is reated badly and people are saying that I am provoking just for the sake of doing it? Or that they say it in a more subtile way in some posts.

When I see that kind of reaction I usually try to smooth things out. (But not always)
Since my social contact are very limited I have to protect them.

Well, I guess I saw it, but I just kind of dismissed it as them taking your criticisms personally, because a lot of people don't get that NTs criticize impersonally, and often take a challenging stance that doesn't have anything to do with a personal attack. I just assumed that must be what was happening here, because it does happen a lot.

Sorry, but you will have to try harder to convince me that I am a feeler.

Well, it was just an idea. I'm not certain enough of it to try and convince you if you don't see it.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I'm a little conflicted about resurrecting this thread, but a little something pertinent came up. I'm not sure if other types realize this, but there is a lot of humor available in pity talk. It is a kind of self-deprecating humor that might be partly an NF thing. I just made a post that I'm guessing some would read as a blatant self-pity thing, but it struck me so damn funny. I can't really explain that type of humor, but just now realized how some might misread it.

 

[Phantonym]

I'm not sure if other types realize this, but there is a lot of humor available in pity talk. It is a kind of self-deprecating humor that might be partly an NF thing. I just made a post that I'm guessing some would read as a blatant self-pity thing, but it struck me so damn funny. I can't really explain that type of humor, but just now realized how some might misread it.

There is A lot of self-irony.

Others seem to think I'm about to slit my wrists while I'm drowning in my own negativity. I'm not. Honest. They don't get it. I laugh. End of story.

If you can't laugh at yourself, you won't be able to laugh at others.

 

[ENFJ_Catholic]

I will do something what I should have done long ago.


I will erase the OP to show that my real intention was not to hurt someone.
My only real crime was that I was using people as guinea-pigs.


If you are curious what was in the OP you have it in post 2 .

What curious passive agression. :steam:

We're self-pitying because NTs don't get us, refuse to get us, or expect us to walk on water intellectually first.

Okay, you asked...we answered. I'm just tired of the usual NT BS...that's why some of us NFs disappear easily enough....when introverted NTs come out of their shells...

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'm a little conflicted about resurrecting this thread, but a little something pertinent came up. I'm not sure if other types realize this, but there is a lot of humor available in pity talk. It is a kind of self-deprecating humor that might be partly an NF thing. I just made a post that I'm guessing some would read as a blatant self-pity thing, but it struck me so damn funny. I can't really explain that type of humor, but just now realized how some might misread it.

Well, I am the last person that will get annoyed by this resurrection.

I am quite expressed thinker but to me it looks like that NFs like to have an emotion around in most cases. But sometimes it looks like they would rather feel (slightly) bad instead of trully apathic.
What can look as masochism.


Personally have noticed that their environment is usually trying to get them back on their feet with humor. So entire thing looks as if they need to go throught unhappiness/depression to be able to feel fine again.

 

[Phantonym]

Personally have noticed that their environment is usually trying to get them back on their feet with humor. So entire thing looks as if they need to go throught unhappiness/depression to be able to feel fine again.

That's right. It's a necessary process to work through all the emotions. A rollercoaster-ride.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Well, I am the last person that will get annoyed by this resurrection.

I am quite expressed thinker but to me it looks like that NFs like to have an emotion around in most cases. But sometimes it looks like they would rather feel (slightly) bad instead of trully apathic.
What can look as masochism.


Personally have noticed that their environment is usually trying to get them back on their feet with humor. So entire thing looks as if they need to go throught unhappiness/depression to be able to feel fine again.

The self-depreciating humor dynamic might be comparable to the "what is grosser than gross" jokes. Having natural aversions to things makes it funny to exploit that as a way of laughing at oneself for having aversions. To exaggerate distress to the point of the ridiculous or to just play with those natural responses can be a type of humor. It makes you realize it isn't that bad. My NT partner and I actually toy with this kind of humor as part of our reporte'.