[NF] Why NFs pity themselves so much ?

[kyuuei]

I would wager to say you're mostly seeing xNFPs here. They're the ones who wallow in self-pity the most.

Interesting approach. That sounds like what I did in an online game once to amuse myself when I was in a really mean mood. I knew some people got really annoyed when they saw players on their team in sub-par gear, so I deliberately equipped really bad, low level items and joined their team in order to enjoy their reaction.

That would be where we differ... that creepy "ritual" you talk about definitely makes me uncomfortable. It's probably part of why I don't like INFPs. The other reason being that most people see me as fairly nice, while they seem to think I'm heartless. That kind of gets on my nerves.

Why NFs in particular? My impression is that INPs do this more than other types.

Once again, you're describing why INFPs frustrate me.

Need I go on? You admitted in the bold parts above that this whole thread sounds similar to your 'mean mood' and you're obviously using the insult to further your 'safe' insulting of INFPs. Don't play dumb. I'm not trying to attack you directly, but good lord you're being critical and when I'm being critical back you're getting defensive.

It doesn't sound very nice. It seems like you're irritated that I tried to understand where he was coming from.

Are you sure this is what you're angry about, and not something else?

No, it wasn't very nice, but neither was 'backing up' and 'understanding' the insulting nature of the thread, moreless contributing to it.

AO doesn't understand NFs. It's not a crime. And he's misguided. But it's also not a crime.

No, it isn't a crime, but I'm not going to sit here while someone throws insults at an entire group like that. It's insulting, not misguided, and I don't take it as anything less.

 

[Lady_X]

yeaaahhhh.....we enfps don't take that shit sitting down! muah kyuuei!

 

[Moiety]

No, it isn't a crime, but I'm not going to sit here while someone throws insults at an entire group like that. It's insulting, not misguided, and I don't take it as anything less.

If you ask me, when people are misguided that doesn't mean I have to get upset about it. Where's your arrogance? What do I care if AO knows nothing about NFs? It's only insulting if it matters. I respect AO and like his inquiring mind, but I've established sometime ago that F is still too foreign a concept for him. If you get riled up you're only playing his game anyway. I don't care that much about what any one person thinks to grant any special treatment, really.

I'm not necessarily criticizing you or anything. Just saying that NFs in general should stop caring so much about what misguided people think of them.

 

[Lady_X]

sy...if we stopped speaking up and defending others than we wouldn't be much of an "advocate" would we. : /

 

[Moiety]

sy...if we stopped speaking up and defending others than we wouldn't be much of an "advocate" would we. : /

I did throw in my two cents like I always do. Just saying getting upset doesn't get anybody anywhere.

 

[Lady_X]

sometimes...it DOES though...i'm not sure much of our progression would've been possible w/o first getting "upset" about something.

 

[kyuuei]

If you ask me, when people are misguided that doesn't mean I have to get upset about it. Where's your arrogance? What do I care if AO knows nothing about NFs? It's only insulting if it matters. I respect AO and like his inquiring mind, but I've established sometime ago that F is still too foreign a concept for him. If you get riled up you're only playing his game anyway. I don't care that much about what any one person thinks to grant any special treatment, really.

I'm not necessarily criticizing you or anything. Just saying that NFs in general should stop caring so much about what misguided people think of them.

What game? Trolling? Or the game of insulting?

I'm not ALWAYS going to get riled up every time someone says something bad in my general direction.. but this I thought crossed a line. It was done in a very condescending manner, it wasn't constructive criticism, it was destructive if anything and WORST of all is that he tried covering it up.

If he had just come out and said "I hate NFs, and they're negative and blah." I probably would have reacted with a "Well, sucks to be you, I like me "

What AO is doing is bully-like, and trolling, and just plain ignorant. I appreciate your words, but I couldn't sit still while this BS went on.

 

[Athenian200]

Need I go on? You admitted in the bold parts above that this whole thread sounds similar to your 'mean mood' and you're obviously using the insult to further your 'safe' insulting of INFPs. Don't play dumb. I'm not trying to attack you directly, but good lord you're being critical and when I'm being critical back you're getting defensive.

Well, I just related, I guess. I wasn't really thinking about how someone else might read it. I wasn't trying to be overtly critical, but I can see how it came across that way. I'm sorry, then.

No, it wasn't very nice, but neither was 'backing up' and 'understanding' the insulting nature of the thread, moreless contributing to it.

I don't know if I agree that the nature of the thread was "insulting." I was more amused than insulted, because of his unawareness that this didn't apply across the board, failing to point out awareness of having equal weaknesses that manifest differently, and that he kept unwittingly phrasing questions in a way that many people took as challenging or insulting.

No, it isn't a crime, but I'm not going to sit here while someone throws insults at an entire group like that. It's insulting, not misguided, and I don't take it as anything less.

I find it annoying that you have such a rigid interpretation of reality. "An insult is an insult, it can't possibly be anything else, because that's how I saw and felt it, and I stubbornly refuse to change my perspective." That's honestly what you sound like to me. Need I remind you that he comes from a completely different culture?

It had insulting elements, but the thing is... there's a lot more going on here than insults. That's a very petty thing to focus on. He might have felt that NFs were worthy of insults when he wrote what he did, but that was obviously due to a misperception of what NFs are. If he understood how we think, and why we think the way we do, he wouldn't have felt anything condescending at all.

People in general tend to feel condescension towards things they don't understand. I think you do as well. If you just go around reducing that to "insulting" everytime you perceive it in someone, you'll never give them a chance to change their minds, and will in fact reinforce their perception that you're worthy of being insulted and condescended to.

For instance, I can picture his thought process now. This reaction, insisting on reducing everything he said and asked to an "insult" and getting angry, just (rather ironically) proves him right in his mind about NFs being ruled by their emotions and unable to evaluate things critically. Is that what you wanted?

 

[Moiety]

sometimes...it DOES though...i'm not sure much of our progression would've been possible w/o first getting "upset" about something.

Yep that is true in a general sense. But again, this is really just one misguided person. I don't know about you, but I have a hippie agenda to take care of. You know, hugs some trees (oh noes!!I've just probably helped reinforce the tree-hugging myth!!!!!) and smoke some joints

 

[Lady_X]

Yep that is true in a general sense. But again, this is really just one misguided person. I don't know about you, but I have a hippie agenda to take care of. You know, hugs some trees (oh noes!!I've just probably helped reinforce the tree-hugging myth!!!!!) and smoke some joints

"Here's to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes... the ones who see things differently -- they're not fond of rules... You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can't do is ignore them because they change things... they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do."
— Jack Kerouac

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
— Margaret Mead

haha...yeah, whatever...i'll join ya in your hippie endeavor.

 

[kyuuei]

I find it annoying that you have such a rigid interpretation of reality. "An insult is an insult, it can't possibly be anything else, because that's how I saw and felt it, and I stubbornly refuse to change my perspective." That's honestly what you sound like to me. Need I remind you that he comes from a completely different culture?

It had insulting elements, but the thing is... there's a lot more going on here than insults. That's a very petty thing to focus on. He might have felt that NFs were worthy of insults when he wrote what he did, but that was obviously due to a misperception of what NFs are. If he understood how we think, and why we think the way we do, he wouldn't have felt anything condescending at all.

People in general tend to feel condescension towards things they don't understand. I think you do as well. If you just go around reducing that to "insulting" everytime you perceive it in someone, you'll never give them a chance to change their minds, and will in fact reinforce their perception that you're worthy of being insulted.

For instance, I can picture his thought process now. This reaction, insisting on reducing everything he said and asked to an "insult" and getting angry, just (rather ironically) proves him right in his mind about NFs being ruled by their emotions and unable to evaluate things critically. Is that what you wanted?

I don't think my being angry about anything on the Internet proves how 'rational' I am, nor do I care what someone thousands of miles away thinks is 'confirmed'. I'm not here to cater to trolls. And I don't think someone living in another country is an excuse to be rude. You say another culture like it's some sort of handicap.

It is insulting, it is a troll thread. If you take it as different, that's fine, but I think I've already made my point quite clear and proved his own contradictions in the thread. The fact that he judged people's personal diaries despite his own admitting that the Internet is not an accurate representation of people, the amount of out right antagonistic way of talking despite him claiming he wants NFs to be more "positive" about life, and his efforts to cover up all of that attitude under the guise of "curiosity/research" or whatever is enough to make my skin crawl.

He's not validated by my outrage. Your reasoning would be like saying "Hey black people, you shouldn't get mad when ole'whitey spits on you, because then you'll play into the thought process that ALL black people are crazy! lolz!" The point is, he's already got it in his head that NFs are emo. Nothing I say will change that. THere's no need to be insulting and blatant about that though.

 

[Athenian200]

You say another culture like it's some sort of handicap.

It is. People from other cultures have trouble understanding what we find offensive here. Standards of what's acceptable vary significantly from culture to culture.

It is insulting, it is a troll thread. If you take it as different, that's fine, but I think I've already made my point quite clear and proved his own contradictions in the thread. The fact that he judged people's personal diaries despite his own admitting that the Internet is not an accurate representation of people, the amount of out right antagonistic way of talking despite him claiming he wants NFs to be more "positive" about life, and his efforts to cover up all of that attitude under the guise of "curiosity/research" or whatever is enough to make my skin crawl.

He's not validated by my outrage. Your reasoning would be like saying "Hey black people, you shouldn't get mad when ole'whitey spits on you, because then you'll play into the thought process that ALL black people are crazy! lolz!" The point is, he's already got it in his head that NFs are emo. Nothing I say will change that. THere's no need to be insulting and blatant about that though.

Sigh. I'm sorry life has made you so bitter. Your views are so black and white. I can see the perspective you've taken here, but... I feel like you're missing the bigger picture and getting hung up on what seems right and wrong as if it were universally applicable, and there are no grey areas.

Was he trolling? Yeah, probably. Is he immature? Again, probably. But could he have trolled about this specific topic because that was the only way his immature mind could think of to get a better understanding of us? I think so. It's also likely that he just sees us as hurting ourselves by feeling so much, and doesn't understand why. He might even unconsciously be in the process of developing his own Fi (hence the curiosity about NFs), and it's spilling out in a negative way.

So the thing is, there's SO much going on here that has potential to be interesting and meaningful, but you're just... not seeing anything except "wrong."

 

[Thalassa]

"So the thing is, there's SO much going on here that has potential to be interesting and meaningful, but you're just... not seeing anything except "wrong." "

You know, I've tried to avoid this, but really... You blatantly insulted NFPs in several of your comments and openly admitted to disliking INFPs in one of them, but anyone who is bothered by that is bitter and petty? WHAT? We should learn from insults and condecending attitudes?

As someone who has studied educational psychology on a university level, I'll be the first person to inform you that creating a hostile, arrogant environment toward your "students" impedes learning. So you're getting mad at the "students" for not learning from a teacher who insults them. I'm sorry, but that goes against the basic psychology of a healthy learning environment. NEXT.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I did actually read / skim through this whole thread for fun ... there's 10 minutes lost forever lol!

It was clear from the get-go that AO was being deliberately provocative. This was a hook, baited with prejudice, and AO reeled the NF's in. And I admit, I'm ready to jump to the defense too when "feelings" are under attack.

And all of this boring, boring stereotyping based on type ... it gets old. AO, you can do better - your OP speaks to a lack of maturity more than anything else to me. If you want to "understand" NF's better, that's fab and I'd be happy to contribute, but a constructive approach works much better here, just as it generally does IRL.

 

[Virtual ghost]

you don't solve something without first finding the solution. the solution is based on how you feel about it. you sort that out and then you take action...you don't take action first...do you really not get that?

This is because our processes of thinking is quite different.
I am very deliberate person while I presume you are not that much.

What means that I am working towards goals.
So here is the thing: I don't have to think what I really want all the time.
When something happens or occures my Ni just throws everything I need to know out and how to solve the problem. If it is something more complex then I will need to use my T.

In a way this is automated reaction. This is because I don't doubt in my goals. But every now and then I stop and rearrange if something is wrong or iif there ara some better things to do.

I hope this makes sense to you.

Okay, AO. I got through a whole 7 pages of you covering your ass and Atheniwhozit getting moist at everything you said before ralphing and drilling a new hole in my head to get the stupid hemorrhaging into my head in check.

This is a poor, pathetic excuse at covering up what you're really trying to do: Provoke and insult NFs as a whole. You're not curious, you're being haughty and just plain rude. Don't try and hide your insults behind this lame "research" excuse. You couldn't care less about what people type in their own personal blogs.

My proof of your haughty-ass ways, if you wanted it.

As you probably already know I disagree. My problem is that I really don't understand F function and I need that knowledge since I plan to get out of
I would dare to say isolation.


But my problems with NFs/Fs is that they often claim something and that claim goes to the wind when they are emotionally charged.


If you start normal converstion with all feeler syou can rarely see what is beneath the skin since their natural appoach is to be friendly. What covers the main process that is hidden in their heads.
I said "pity" in a title but this about more things then just a petty.
For example there is also a lot of threads about insecurities.


I don't know, maybe I am wrong about this but to me it looks that a number of NF are not what they seem to be in real life and the only way to get the out of their shell is to get them emotionally charged.


For example I don't know why people tend to "explode". I simply don't get it.
Also if the person expodes I can't just talk to it since if I remain calm that will irritate them even more. So I am forced to more argue with them.
Since if I don't, there will be even more damadge.
You can freely curse me how much you like but you will not trigger anger. Which is because I suck at feelings.



Personally I have never smashed something because I was angry. I can't even remember when I cursed someones name last time. (since it was years ago)


Until I joined here I did not have any idea what is happening in heads of a typical NF or SF.

Or you did, and now that you're being called out for trying to cover your emotional, irritated ass you've gotta stick with your lies. It's cool.

Nope.

Really? This is why you're calling NFs emos and bitching about personal threads you're roaming through? Again, I'm calling out your bullshit.

Yes, I think you could use more positive atmosphere since it looks you like it. But for some reason people tend to close into themselfves when they are depresed and I don't understand why. Also since I am a loner people tend to think I am fighting strong depression on my own. What is not true.
What creates pressure on me and I dont even understand why people are so sure that I am depressed. Even people on this forum tend to think this way.



Imagine different scenario then it is.

I have opened a thread and said : Why are NF so depressed ?
What would I get for this ?

I would probaby got shallow information and thread would probably end after 20-30 posts.


If I now ask you: Why things that make you unhapply make you unhappy ?
What would you say to me?


Probably majority of answers in that hypothetical thread would sound similar as will.


But if I attack there are chances that because of the tensions something useful (to me) will come out.




Why do you think I have opened the thread " What do you think about Fs? " in NT private forum on the same day ?

I have opened it to see how Ts relate to Fs and NFs so that I will be able to see how I can create normal communication with them.
I have never in my life had one of those deep friendships.
But all people who I contact and talk to are Ts (male or female).
Which is because I am unable to form a long conversation with an F in face to face conversation.




Here is the OP of that thread.

Very simple:What do you trully think about feelers ?


All areas of life are included into this question/thread. I know that Fs are very wide group of people and that there are healthy ones and unhealthy ones.
So people/NTs are free to take this question in way that they relate it to their expriances with Fs and what they find good and what they find bad about them.


I suggest to Fs to take this thread as useful information instead and not as a hostile gesture.

I'm not sure how much more of this you want me to swallow, because my throat only opens up so wide. You're saying your personality is distorted online. But everyone else DEFINITELY has an accurate representation of them on the Internet. Fantastic.

Yes, I think it is and I said it is. But if this is true what you are saying then why there are so many emotionally charged post around here ?

Your personality is distorted but it still represents you fairly well and mine still represensts me. So it is reasonable to presume that NF are fighting on the inside if there is so many post that are emotionally charged.



I am sorry but in a way your reaction is a mistery to me. I don't understand why people tend to react this way. I really don't. I have only theories.



Btw, thank for understanding Sy.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

And all of this boring, boring stereotyping based on type ... it gets old.

Word.

Yawn

 

[Athenian200]

You know, I've tried to avoid this, but really... You blatantly insulted NFPs in several of your comments and openly admitted to disliking INFPs in one of them, but anyone who is bothered by that is bitter and petty? WHAT? We should learn from insults and condecending attitudes?

Blatently? I was directing the comments about NFPs at Antisocial one, not you. I'm sorry you read it. In the part you quoted, I wasn't even talking about my own comments, but rather his.

I was mostly doing it in order to keep him from lumping NFJs in with NFPs, because I don't want NTs to look down on me, think I'm exactly like the NFPs (since they're pretty much the NF archetype), and thus attribute negative qualities to me that I don't have. Are you really going to fault me for that?

 

[Thalassa]

You said you didn't like INFPs. You said some of the stuff they do is "creepy." You know, I have to say that strikes me as more than a mite bigoted. You can't just say that every INFP is creepy or you don't like them. That's ridiculous. That's like saying "I don't like French people" as though they're exactly alike.

"and attribute negative qualities to me that I don't have"

You were so busy pointing out what your faults aren't, you forgot to mention what flaws that INFJs do have because they can be just as unhealthy or immature in their own ways. Or the positive traits that NFPs have in contrast to their unhealthy or immature side. The way you went about it was more "I don't have faults like these people do. " You were trying to make NFPs the "other" that you were above, so he would relate to you.

If you were directing your prejudiced comments about NFPs only at Antisocial one, then maybe you should have sent him a private message instead of posting derogatory, opinionated comments that every NFP can also read if you didn't want a reaction.

"Are you really going to fault me for that?"

YES.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I was mostly doing it in order to keep him from lumping NFJs in with NFPs, because I don't want NTs to look down on me, think I'm exactly like the NFPs (since they're pretty much the NF archetype), and thus attribute negative qualities to me that I don't have. Are you really going to fault me for that?

AGAIN, more boring, boring, BORING stereotypes; but I am seeing some pretty negative qualities emanating from your direction with these types of posts.

 

[heart]

Why NF's pity themselves so much?

Don't worry, they likely pity you too.