[NF] Why NFs pity themselves so much ?

[Athenian200]

But I don't understand why. Which is because I don't understand the mind set. Why you reach out for others? Why don't you start thinking about solving the actual problem? I presume that NFs can do that but they don't in many cases.
Are your emotions so overpowering in critical situations?

We don't reach out for others to solve the problem because we already know how to do that. Just about anyone can solve the logical side of a problem on their own.

When we reach out for others, it's generally to motivate ourselves and dispel negative feelings and perceptions about ourselves that we already think are probably invalid. We just need the affirmation from an outside source to confirm that there's nothing wrong with us. That's the thing about us... we tend to have trouble generating motivation and confidence internally, so we end up having to turn to other people for it (though we're generally selective about who we trust).

If we can solve the problem, but we're not motivated to act on it or believe something negative about ourselves that makes us uncertain of whether we should solve it, that doesn't help us.

So, in essence, we usually aren't dealing with the critical situation. We've likely already dealt with it. When you see us, we're usually dealing with motivation and affirmation.

 

[Lady_X]

^^ oh! see...i think that's the difference between a fe answer and a fi one possibly.

i don't know if this is the case with everyone...but i actually don't always know how i feel about stuff and occasionally have to talk or think through it until i understand fully where i stand.

 

[Thalassa]

Antisocial one;645035 said: "I have deliberatly choosen more antagonistic approach. Just to see will it trigger a hostile response.
So that I can ask: Why did it trigger a hostile reaction? Are you afaid that I am judging you ? "

Well, because the way you worded your question was condecending and perjorative.


"In the case you are, why you are afraid of that and why did you even bother to reply? Were you offended because I am INTJ ?"

No. I have friends who are INTJs


"Once you answer those question maybe you will realise better why you are so unhappy at times. "

Ha ha ha this is just funny. You are coming across as being really arrogant. Actually, some people are unhappy because they're clinically depressed. Others are unhappy because they are empathetic to the suffering of others. Still others are unhappy because they have very good reasons to be. For you to suggest that all NFs are unhappy because they're afraid INTJs are judging them is a little insane. Especially since INFPs rarely care what strangers think of them, but are deeply hurt by the criticisms of loved ones.




"Another reason is because I trully don't understand why people here have a tendency towards depressive thinking/feeling. Which is becaus I am built differently then NFs. "

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it "wrong."


If you were just genuinely trying to understand the difference, I believe your tone would have been less high and mighty. Instead, it appears more that you're trying to correct what you see as being "bad" behavior.

You're welcome to do this of course, as long as you ask yourself why you feel a need to swoop in and correct others while you're asking us why we feel a need to be "emo."

 

[AOA]

Perhaps it's not worth mentioning this, but I ought to give my 2-cent for it any way.

... I mentioned my first crush (INFP) a little earlier. Well, after so long I found myself surfing that crappy site, hi5, which we joined when it first became introduced in the beginning of 2005. Now back then, I was modest about it - set up a simple moderately detailed page. However I found when she developed her page, it was absolutely 'next' level. Full of... life that literally gets to your head, I can't get any more serious than that! Turns out I checked up her page a while ago and... even worse, she'd cramped it with even more 'life' of her own version, and the effect is the same - reminiscent, unbearable and quite simply, out-of-reality. Her text is even written in a way that 'will' pain the reader. This is quite bad, because at the time I thought I knew her, but turns out these were her true colors, her true life perspectives.

... Coming back to this topic, she (INFP) used to tell me how depressed and lonely she feels, and that she tries to relate to memories where she was perhaps brave at some points in her life and that she lacks confidence. Never really explaining why either, and never really seemed to appreciate the advise she was getting.

Therefore, as far as I could relate with my experience with this one strong-sensed NF, pity comes around as a result of the NF's own doings or misdoings. There is no way a normal minded person can become pitiful unless the majority says so, or addresses so. Now, given her 'life' was visible on a 'public' page that is Hi5, where virtually anyone can view, and thereby conclude, it's not uneasy to conclude that in some ways... she was asking/gagging to be concluded in a manner that would make people address her as such. Call it naiveté or plain stupidity, the 'responsibility' for it ends up somewhere or someplace.

... And that's the beauty of life - we practically don't run away from our misdoings. They're part of us in what develops in us... called responsibility. Nobody can get away with anything, except that (say) somehow human nature develops a 'restraining order' for it.

People ought to stop unconditionally sympathizing for random people with issues, and start by understanding where the self-pitying person went wrong and impose tough measures on them - to beat them out of their shells. All the self-pitying person is really doing is being cautious that his/her plights don't get any worse... should he/she be forced to behave like they (otherwise) normally do. Real bad for their future outlook, eh? I gave the INFP as an example because for one, I wanted to forget her any way, and another that she 'just' is a strong example of people out there going wrong. Not anyone else's fault... it's theirs - just wrapped up in a sugar coat of some kind of deception.

... Besides, I was never a fan of Hi5 any way, and wanted to vent my thoughts out, here.

 

[Thalassa]

I would disagree with the bolded statement. This is probably not related to type at all. i have known some extremely closed-minded and judgmental NFP types where I just had to keep my mouth shut because they were ramming their ideas down my throat. It probably has more to do w/ maturity than anything else.

Well, yes, if someone really violates my core values, I do get overbearing. I do definitely think that INFPs do the cramming down the throat thing if it's very serious to them.

What I mean, though, in this particular case is that despite my particular beliefs I have friends, and have even dated, people of wildly different political views from myself. I can seperate the politics from the person, as it were. This friend says she could never do that. *shrugs*

 

[Shelovesyoumaybe]

I am watching the NF forum all the time and there is something that I can't overlook.

What I can't overlook is how many post here are written in the stile : I am depressed, do others like me, I suck at life, why people don't like me and stuff like that.

In NT forum there are similar posts but there is a smaller amount of them and I would dare to say that conversations are more constructive.

Here you just have a emofest of some sort and it is almost like you are making eachother depressed. (and enjoy it)


I am sorry but I really don't understand what you are trying to achive if you have a goal in the first place. Are you just venting ? Or you really need attention of others to talk to you about emotions you have at the moment?

Go here.

:hi:

 

[Kalach]

See, if an INTJ were feeling sad, he'd be criticising himself for not doing something. His sadness would likely take the form of, "Why can't I get this right? Why did that go wrong? How come it never works!?"

Put on an emo display in front of an INTJ and, aside from standing still kinda stunned just watching, he'll be thinking of how, and when, to advise. And if he feels it's right to advise at some point, and you don't follow the advice it's because you're too locked into sadness, and he might go ahead and call you stuck in self-pity.

If he were a meanie, that is.

 

[OrangeAppled]

People ought to stop unconditionally sympathizing for random people with issues, and start by understanding where the self-pitying person went wrong and impose tough measures on them - to beat them out of their shells. All the self-pitying person is really doing is being cautious that his/her plights don't get any worse... should he/she be forced to behave like they (otherwise) normally do. Real bad for their future outlook, eh? I gave the INFP as an example because for one, I wanted to forget her any way, and another that she 'just' is a strong example of people out there going wrong. Not anyone else's fault... it's theirs - just wrapped up in a sugar coat of some kind of deception.

A person with emotional problems and chronic depression is NOT the same as an NF. :rolli:
That chick may have happened to be both, but she does not define the type.

Tough love generally does NOT work well with NFs. They feel attacked and will shut down. Empathy does not mean condoning or encouraging wrong feelings. It simply says "I know what it's like to feel wrong" and that makes a person feel like they aren't alone and they may be more open to your advice, given in a kind & encouraging manner. The minute you trivialize an NF's feelings, you've just put them on the defense.

I do agree that on the internet, we often get a very one-sided story and can unwittingly give validation for feelings that don't deserve it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Well, because the way you worded your question was condecending and perjorative.

Yes it was and it was with reason.

"Once you answer those question maybe you will realise better why you are so unhappy at times. "

Ha ha ha this is just funny. You are coming across as being really arrogant. Actually, some people are unhappy because they're clinically depressed. Others are unhappy because they are empathetic to the suffering of others. Still others are unhappy because they have very good reasons to be. For you to suggest that all NFs are unhappy because they're afraid INTJs are judging them is a little insane. Especially since INFPs rarely care what strangers think of them, but are deeply hurt by the criticisms of loved ones.

Well, it is in my nature to come as arrogant.

Here is the thing: You are empathinc so you feel the pain of others. But what I don't understand is why you identify yourself with this trait to such a degree and why you think that this is something so positive.
We need empathy in a society but to me this looks as you are enjoying feeling other people pain, what is probably just a byproduct of being helpful.
But since you want to help, you end up looking as masochists of some sort.

As person I am "empty" most of the time and if I will try to help someone I don't use emotions in the process. But I usually don't try to solve their emotional problems since I suck at emtions. So I am operating only in a sphere of "practical" solutions.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it "wrong."

I don't think I said it is wrong. I just find it strange.

If you were just genuinely trying to understand the difference, I believe your tone would have been less high and mighty. Instead, it appears more that you're trying to correct what you see as being "bad" behavior.

You're welcome to do this of course, as long as you ask yourself why you feel a need to swoop in and correct others while you're asking us why we feel a need to be "emo."

Towards my looking at the things I am just direct nothing more.

Go here.

:hi:

I am a member for a long time.

man...i don't think you listened.

do you like to discuss things? like this thought of yours...this confusion about this topic...why didn't YOU just work it out for yourself....can you but you just chose not to?

i am saying that it is the same thing...it is a feeling rather than a thought that needs to be sorted out so discussing it helps...same process different objective.

I am aware of that. Even if it does not looks like that.

What is not clear to me is why it has to be sorted before the problem is solved? If the problem stays unsolved then you will have a problem with that because it will probably make you nervous even more. Also it could happen that you are not aware of it. So it will make you nervous "quietly".

But I think that in most cases this has an impact. What means that you will need more time to recover and sort things out if you start with sorting of emotions.

So in many cases it could be wiser to try to solve the problem instead of sorting your emotions and if you need that you can sort them out once you solve the problem.
But from what I saw that is not typical NF approach. Instead you prefer to
postpone problem solving and get in sad " what should I do now ?" mood.
Eventually you will recover but to me this can look like drama just for the sake of drama.



However I know that you can't use this approach on many kinds of problems.
This is simplified example.






Why you tend to get annoyed if someone is being rude ?


I know that the answer can look obvious but I think that it is not that much obvious.

 

[The Outsider]

I can't really stand self-pitying and whining in general.

 

[Shelovesyoumaybe]

I am a member for a long time.

You should spend more time there.

 

[Athenian200]

I am aware of that. Even if it does not looks like that.

What is not clear to me is why it has to be sorted before the problem is solved? If the problem stays unsolved then you will have a problem with that because it will probably make you nervous even more. Also it could happen that you are not aware of it. So it will make you nervous "quietly".

But I think that in most cases this has an impact. What means that you will need more time to recover and sort things out if you start with sorting of emotions.

So in many cases it could be wiser to try to solve the problem instead of sorting your emotions and if you need that you can sort them out once you solve the problem.
But from what I saw that is not typical NF approach. Instead you prefer to
postpone problem solving and get in sad " what should I do now ?" mood.
Eventually you will recover but to me this can look like drama just for the sake of drama.



However I know that you can't use this approach on many kinds of problems.
This is simplified example.

In some situations, this is indeed a flaw in our psychology that we can't do much besides work around. I admit that.

However, in some situations... it's actually an emotion that's causing it to feel like there's a problem with our situation rather than the other way around. In this situation, working through the emotion resolves everything, and there's no need to do anything else.

In fact, an NT, whose first impulse would be to change something objective in response to a sense that something is wrong, might end up unconsciously running away from resolving the real emotional issue that's actually causing the pain, and just drowning it out or masking it temporarily.

So depending on whether the true source of the discomfort is emotional/psychological or objective/physical in nature, the NF or NT response is more effective.

Does that make sense?

 

[Virtual ghost]

You should spend more time there.

You are quite antitolerant for someone who has signature like yours.


But I don't mind. Actually I value this kind of an additude.

 

[Virtual ghost]

In some situations, this is indeed a flaw in our psychology that we can't do much besides work around. I admit that.

However, in some situations... it's actually an emotion that's causing it to feel like there's a problem with our situation rather than the other way around. In this situation, working through the emotion resolves everything, and there's no need to do anything else.

In fact, an NT, whose first impulse would be to change something objective in response to a sense that something is wrong, might end up unconsciously running away from resolving the real emotional issue that's actually causing the pain, and just drowning it out or masking it temporarily.

So depending on whether the true source of the discomfort is emotional/psychological or objective/physical in nature, the NF or NT response is more effective.

Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes sense.

But this part

However, in some situations... it's actually an emotion that's causing it to feel like there's a problem with our situation rather than the other way around. In this situation, working through the emotion resolves everything, and there's no need to do anything else.

sound like favoring of denial.

 

[Athenian200]

sound like favoring of denial.

It can be.

In a nutshell, I think NFs are more vulnerable to denial, while I think NTs are more vulnerable to dissociation (though I could be wrong).

Although, again... sometimes the proper response to the feeling is to work through it, rather than change something about your situation. If it comes back after you do this once, though, that means it's time to start looking to change your situation.

 

[Snow Turtle]

Personally I'm conscious that I spend too much time wallowing in my own self-pity and emotional problems, but that's because it's difficult to see a solution to a problem, or because the solutions are not optimal. For example currently in my life: I'm forced to make the choice of deciding my future, and whether I will leave my friends. There are virtually no good options there. The lack of options generates negative feelings.

However one thing is for certain. I've noticed that FPs are more expressive of their sadness and emotions in general, and FJ seem to require permission to express themselves more, at least with the younger teenagers.

Antisocial One. You sound like you don't really understand depressed people.
This might interest you. -> Learned helplessness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Virtual ghost]

Antisocial One. You sound like you don't really understand depressed people.
This might interest you. -> Learned helplessness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are apsolutly right I don't understand depressed people.
Since I am not depressed and I don't have emotional approach towards life.

 

[Athenian200]

Since I am not depressed and I don't have emotional approach towards life.

You don't get depressed or feel a lot of negative emotions? I'm kind of jealous now, because that sounds great.

If your intention was to make me jealous of your confidence, comfort, and ability to get what you want easily, you've succeeded. Congratulations.

 

[Moiety]

Yours (AO) is a gross generalization, but if nothing else, bear in my mind we aren't exactly in a real life environment here. Some people talk about stuff here that they simply don't in real life. You too probably.

There can be a variety of reasons why people post in such a way. Venting, seeking counsel, etc

I personally don't pity myself at all (much more prone to pitying others if anything.but pity is just a very stupid sentiment).

There's also something you must take into account and that is the weight written text carries with it...or the lack thereof. Some people just feel the need to often exaggerate or infuse it with feeling to get others to know how they feel. It's a feedback thing. NFs might communicate much more with feeling. There are a million meanings that can be interpreted from the same exact phrase depending on how you say things.


I feel like I'm not addressing everything that should be addressed but chose to post anyway.

 

[Virtual ghost]

You don't get depressed or feel a lot of negative emotions? I'm kind of jealous now, because that sounds great.

This what I am trying to say since I came here. But people don't believe me.


My logic goes like this:

If a problem can be sovled it will be solved and if it can't be solved then there is no point in worring and getting depressed about it.

Also I am not too emotional person by default so by I have a natural tendency to avoid depression.
While everybody are prepared to place bets that I am quite depressed.


The only "flaw" of this is that you don't get too big bonuses from good emotions.