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  1. #261
    Senior Member Kyrielle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Well, when I said unsocial I wasn't saying 100% unsocial.

    For exmple: the category of people known as scientist.
    Most of them are quite unsocial. Since they are INTs by a large degree.
    Most scientific carrers by definition don't allow you to be too social.

    But the ability of those people to make logical conclusions is above average.


    I have always looked at extroversion as a copy/paste mechanism.
    I understand that things are not that much black and white but my thinking goes in this direction.


    Modern science is extremly complex and if you don't invest decades in education you can't be on the "frontline".


    Only if you distance youself enough you will see that many things that are promoted as logical are not that much logical.


    If we presume that there is right and wrong.
    I find this to be incorrect. Networking is still just as important in the scientific community as it is in any other field. If you do not know your competition, your "comrads", or your mentors, then how can you hope to have enough input in order to find solutions to your answers. In addition, you must be able to present your findings in a coherent manner and maintain discussions and be able to adaquately defend your position. These things require social skills to some degree. Science does not operate in a vacuum, usually. However, if you are using "social" in the context of "hanging out with coworkers and going to luncheons", then barring office jobs, such activities are not altogether common in other fields either.

    I think Athenian has a very valid point. If you wish to move up in any field, even science, being able to foster useful connections is a highly logical choice. Such that being social is the more logical thing to do, though it may go against one's inherent tendencies.

    Remember, I say this being probably as introverted as yourself and preferring to work alone. Working as an artist is just as "unsocial" as working in a lab doing research or going out in the field to examine sediments. But at some point, the need to interface with people effectively and essentially appear "social" is vital in getting anything done or making any kind of livable income. It just comes with the territory.
    "I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference."

    Robert Frost

  2. #262
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post

    Well, when I said unsocial I wasn't saying 100% unsocial.



    For exmple: the category of people known as scientist.
    Most of them are quite unsocial. Since they are INTs by a large degree.
    Most scientific carrers by definition don't allow you to be too social.

    But the ability of those people to make logical conclusions is above average.


    I have always looked at extroversion as a copy/paste mechanism.
    I understand that things are not that much black and white but my thinking goes in this direction.


    Modern science is extremly complex and if you don't invest decades in education you can't be on the "frontline".


    Only if you distance youself enough you will see that many things that are promoted as logical are not that much logical.


    If we presume that there is right and wrong.

    But being social is not always a good choice in science. Since most of the time you have to invest in you a research. If you don't do that you are not really a scientist.

  3. #263
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    Originally Posted by Antisocial one
    One question.

    Do you ever feel a "duty" to make Ts around to feel something in that moment?
    Um, T's have feelings. I don't feel that it's my duty to make them feel something since they already have feelings of their own. I am going to echo Lauren Ashley in that I hate when people tell me to "smile" when I don't feel like it, and I would empathetically wish to extend that same courtesy to others, to not ask them to "smile" et al. I've actually found several NTPs to be somewhat "warmer" than NTs are supposed to be.

    The closest thing I would do to that would be to ask a T to examine his or her feelings or motivations in a particular situation, but it's not my "duty" to make them feel anything. I'm not especially into "duty" anyway being an INFP.

    Furthermore, NTs can be very social, especially if they're ENTs, so maybe you're specifically referring to extremely introverted INTs.

    I'm an I_F_, but I am more social than Athenian proclaims to be. I love being outdoors and I don't automatically mistrust people. It's more that I need my time alone to think and feel, and must retreat from crowds after a certain amount of time. I can still enjoy parties, but unlike some E's, large parties aren't the top of my list of things to do. I'm very social with friends and family, I just tend to eschew having a slew of acquaintences. I need human contact on a daily basis, but I've also been known to turn my phone off so people will leave me alone.

  4. #264
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'm an I_F_, but I am more social than Athenian proclaims to be. I love being outdoors and I don't automatically mistrust people. It's more that I need my time alone to think and feel, and must retreat from crowds after a certain amount of time. I can still enjoy parties, but unlike some E's, large parties aren't the top of my list of things to do. I'm very social with friends and family, I just tend to eschew having a slew of acquaintences. I need human contact on a daily basis, but I've also been known to turn my phone off so people will leave me alone.
    I think it's possible you're just a weak E. Need human contact on a daily basis? That's quite a bit, almost... needy, actually (although I could see an E being like that). I'd like to have more human contact than I do, but nowhere near that much.

    I don't think there's anything wrong with it, I just... well, I'd prefer you weren't so quick to dismiss my experience in order to reaffirm that F = Social. If I seemed to dismiss yours, it was kind of a defensive thing. I especially don't trust people who like the outdoors or parties.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    One question.

    Do you ever feel a "duty" to make Ts around to feel something in that moment?


    If some SFs want to answer this question they are free to do so.
    The only time I ever consider anyone's internal feelings inregards to my input/influence is when they talk to me about their feelings and then the only thing I would do is try to get them to pinpoint in on exactly what they are feeling. If they don't seem like they want to talk about it, I don't push it.

    Now if someone challenges my viewpoint and turns a discussion about feelings into a debate, yes, I'll debate them on those points, but with thinkers this can become a problem. Some thinkers, especially female thinkers don't seem to understand the difference between simply talking about their own feelings and/or debating the core issues at the heart of the feelings being talked about.

    Some thinkers, mostly female (but not to be clear it's not all female thinkers as a group, many female thinkers do not do this, only some), want to make inflamatory remarks about the feelings of others and then when that is turned to debate as a result, they suddenly cry "unfair, you're invalidating my feelings!" Like they cannot find the dividing line between feeling and intellectual concept about such feelings. They seem to me to be emotional timebombs waiting to go off. They expect to be able to stamp all over the core issues surrounding someone else's beliefs but can't tolerate the same in return. Like a large cat with a huge tail it doesn't know how to handle.

  6. #266
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'm an I_F_, but I am more social than Athenian proclaims to be. I love being outdoors and I don't automatically mistrust people. It's more that I need my time alone to think and feel, and must retreat from crowds after a certain amount of time. I can still enjoy parties, but unlike some E's, large parties aren't the top of my list of things to do. I'm very social with friends and family, I just tend to eschew having a slew of acquaintences. I need human contact on a daily basis, but I've also been known to turn my phone off so people will leave me alone.
    +1 to all of the above. Except needing daily contact and being outdoors.

  7. #267
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    +1 to all of the above. Except needing daily contact and being outdoors.
    You don't seem so bad. You're unnervingly comfortable with parties, but other than that, you seem like you're in a good place. I'm actually more Introverted than I like to be because I've kind of caught myself in a situation where interaction and connection aren't really viable for me.

  8. #268
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    You don't seem so bad. You're unnervingly comfortable with parties, but other than that, you seem like you're in a good place. I'm actually more Introverted than I like to be because I've kind of caught myself in a situation where interaction and connection aren't really viable for me.
    Are you very shy as well as introverted?

  9. #269
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    I used to be really distrustful of other people until I was in my mid twenties. Now I can look back and realize how I pushed people away with this and I feel awful about it. Plus I suffered lack of growth in certain areas of myself due to isolation.

    I had INTJ father who was ultra distrustful of others and I let a lot of his beliefs influence me and then life helped to reinforce them. But now I try to take people on a case by case basis.

  10. #270
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Are you very shy as well as introverted?
    I'd say so.

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