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[MBTI General] Do you mirror and add personality traits to be able to converse "normally"?

GZA

Resident Snot-Nose
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I don't mirror, per se, but I sort of simplify my thoughts when I speak so they are not so abstract and wild. A lot of the time the sort of translation between the crazy web of thoughts, insights, emotions, memories, the absurd humour that emerges from these, and the way I verbally express them ends up muddled, but it might be better than being completely misunderstood when trying to say things in as literal a way as I see them as I can. The difference between these approaches in terms of how people percieve me is that when I've tried to verbalize my thoughts literally, some people percieved me as crazy/insane, and when I try to simplify it into normal words, some people percieve me as dumb. For the most part, it doesn't bother me much because I know that I'm not insane (maybe a little eccentric) and not dumb (I often end up suprising people later when they get to know me better and I can talk about more serious things in a more fluid and intelligent way).
 

the state i am in

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i didn't read all this but you're just using Ne and Te a lot. this is what extroversion is. it is merging with the actuality placed before you, which you are implicated in, from which you cannot escape. so go with it, let it effect you, influence you, change you, etc. that is one perspective.

the other is that is more about the N of Ne. that you are using your perceiving function. you are juggling possibilities and exploring new ways to be. it IS what adapting is made up of. evolving. learning, especially learning. judgment is great, it is what gives our lives value and meaning. but perceiving gives our lives novelty, freshness, and zest. it allows us to get unstuck, to make ourselves new, to reproduce ourselves with as much mutation as possible, experimentation, exploration, finding something better (woah where did that judgment sneak in...).

if you lose your sense of self totally you will be an inhumane monster. that is caught somewhere in the muddled mix of Te-Fi or Fe-Ti. judgment = assigning value. whichever way that works out is the kind of balance that will be as you as you could be. your meaning. altho not identifying the self, the idea of self, the lens of self with our technological roots, our skills and styles for perception and proprioception, is pretty much incoherent as well.
 

Serendipity

the Dark Prophet of Kualu
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i didn't read all this but you're just using Ne and Te a lot. this is what extroversion is. it is merging with the actuality placed before you, which you are implicated in, from which you cannot escape. so go with it, let it effect you, influence you, change you, etc. that is one perspective.

the other is that is more about the N of Ne. that you are using your perceiving function. you are juggling possibilities and exploring new ways to be. it IS what adapting is made up of. evolving. learning, especially learning. judgment is great, it is what gives our lives value and meaning. but perceiving gives our lives novelty, freshness, and zest. it allows us to get unstuck, to make ourselves new, to reproduce ourselves with as much mutation as possible, experimentation, exploration, finding something better (woah where did that judgment sneak in...).

if you lose your sense of self totally you will be an inhumane monster. that is caught somewhere in the muddled mix of Te-Fi or Fe-Ti. judgment = assigning value. whichever way that works out is the kind of balance that will be as you as you could be. your meaning. although not identifying the self, the idea of self, the lens of self with our technological roots, our skills and styles for perception and proprioception, is pretty much incoherent as well.



Well, I wonder if the reason that you did not read all of it was because you had already made up your mind and didn't think that anything new in this thread would reveal itself.
And now I wonder if that was a question or not.

Inhumane monster. That term is somewhat off. I really dislike the word "inhumane". Torture is a human way of doing things. It cannot be written off as something humans does not do. Or the holocaust. That was also humans. Inhumane my ass. Just covering up for something you don't want to acknowledge.
I can go along with being a human monster. If I now have lost all of my "former glory".

Otherwise I kind of agree with your post.
 

sculpting

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the other is that is more about the N of Ne. that you are using your perceiving function. you are juggling possibilities and exploring new ways to be. it IS what adapting is made up of. evolving. learning, especially learning. judgment is great, it is what gives our lives value and meaning. but perceiving gives our lives novelty, freshness, and zest. it allows us to get unstuck, to make ourselves new, to reproduce ourselves with as much mutation as possible, experimentation, exploration, finding something better (woah where did that judgment sneak in...).

if you lose your sense of self totally you will be an inhumane monster. that is caught somewhere in the muddled mix of Te-Fi or Fe-Ti. judgment = assigning value. whichever way that works out is the kind of balance that will be as you as you could be. your meaning. altho not identifying the self, the idea of self, the lens of self with our technological roots, our skills and styles for perception and proprioception, is pretty much incoherent as well.

State, potentially could a person be much more "inhumane monster" like-could use a better term-if all they did was use Ne almost exclusively-like a human vacuum onto others-constantly changing, moving, manipulating, a human vamprire of sorts for the other people around them, in order to gain feedback??? They feed off of others using massive amounts of Ne to give themselves a sense of identity?
 

the state i am in

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Well, I wonder if the reason that you did not read all of it was because you had already made up your mind and didn't think that anything new in this thread would reveal itself.
And now I wonder if that was a question or not.

i was certainly more in the mood to speak than to listen. if my attempts to re-frame the problem were unhelpful, that's ok. if they were irritating than i do apologize.

Inhumane monster. That term is somewhat off.

what i was trying to get at was that without a sense of self you would be inhumane. the sense of self is what gives us the ability to relate toeach other human qua human. hence humane, humanity, etc. the subjective experience that is recreated and (somewhat) reproduced, that is redundant between us (like a language) for us to communicate with some measure of understood dialogue, shared meaning, positions we both can grasp, etc.

also, i'm not saying you have no sense of self. i hope that was apparent. i think i shifted into you plural for much of that. it was an attempt to outline the boundaries of the problem, which is between the detached objective technological judgment of T and the self-relating feeling judgment of F. and the way in which using those two forms of judgment in conjunction (as pairs) give us our outline as human beings who value things.

i'm also attempting to get at the how being almost totally imbalanced as far as perceiving (change!) vs judging (value!) would divorce you from the processes of creating meaning for yourself, or for being able to change and gather new information. the possibility within the continuum of these things is what human beings are made up of and constituted for, however, and they can be explored however you may wish.

i'm not saying you have a problem at all. i get called a shape-shifter myself. i like to explore new things. embody the cultural and subjective experiences around me. to do this fully and completely you have to let go of introverted and excessively judge judge judge tendencies and be more open, receptive, and more adaptive. but introversion is a highly prized skill too, and reflecting on what is important to you, what you value, creating your priorities is a huge aspect of creating yourself, your meaning, your belief and faith in yourself and others and the (social) world at large. you need judgment (value!) to be able to relate to others deeply on a subjective level, to actually understand the experience internally.
 

the state i am in

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State, potentially could a person be much more "inhumane monster" like-could use a better term-if all they did was use Ne almost exclusively-like a human vacuum onto others-constantly changing, moving, manipulating, a human vamprire of sorts for the other people around them, in order to gain feedback??? They feed off of others using massive amounts of Ne to give themselves a sense of identity?

i think the idea of just being 100% perceiving without (value) judgment is terrifying. enfps without seriously explored Fi can do terrible things. the ones that organize their own values and priorities, who take the time to understand and experience their own web of subjective experiences, feeling tones, beliefs, values, emotional ideas, etc, work thru the contradictions of what their own attempt to relate to others has been like and get down deeply into the messy webs of what it means to be human, great. the ones who don't at all, your Ne 100% p vampires, are by definition sociopaths.
 

King sns

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I have to mirror excitement.
I'm not easily worked up about events and stuff so people think i'm like depressed or something when they're all like " O M G! We're going to the BEACH!" or. "CHRISTMAS IS COMING IN 19 DAYS!" and i'm like. "Yea, cool whatever :huh:."

It really rains on people's parade. I just don't get excited about upcoming things. I get excited about things that are going to happen that day but even then I don't really show it, except with some extra chatiness.

So now I at least try to give a smile and say, "great!" So it doesn't totally ruin days. I'm usually pretty cheerful but sometimes my facial expression goes blank at bad times people say, so sometimes I have to read moods and react appropriately.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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Well, I am not a NF but I will join the party.



The only way I can really talk to the other people is to distort my approach.


I have learned to use nice words. like: Please , thank you, sorry , and similar.
Even if I don't mean it/feel it quite often.
When I talk to people (especially the ones that don't know me) I pretend to be more friendly then I am and I try not to be too controversial.



But the main difference is that I hide my Te to a great degree since my natural conversation style is somewhere among the lines of Darth Vader.


But you simply can't talk to people like that. Since you make them too uncomfortable and/or you come as bossy. Even on this forum my Te is somewhat supprsessed.
I have concluded that Te displays are usually counter productive.
Especially since the ratio of my Fe and Te is 1:13 (if test shows the truth)



Also I have a tendency to say what I don't think.

1. To avoid pointless conflicts

2. To test people.


Sometimes I can present my claims/ideas directly to another person.
But when a person starts to agree without any real reason. I swich my claims to my real position (or another decoy) .

I do this beause I am testing how much "submissive" are they.
 

sculpting

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so this afternoon I sat and was chatting with an ENTP and an ENTJ. The ENTP couldnt understand why she was having issues communicating with an ISTJ we had just had a meeting with. I could work with him and the ENTJ could work with him. But watching the ENTP talk with the ISTJ was like watching two folks talk at, or across each other.

I drew out the functions on the whiteboard:

ISTJ=Si, Te, Fi

ENTP=Ne, Ti, Fe
ENFP=Ne, Fi, Te
ENTJ=Te, Ni, Se

the ENTJ looked at it for a second and popped out with "oh, it's like velcro! you cant stick the two pieces together unless they have hooks that match"

jsut thought it was a neat analogy which sort of fit with the concept of mirroring/matching others to enhance communication
 

Serendipity

the Dark Prophet of Kualu
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also, I'm not saying you have no sense of self. I hope that was apparent.

It was, I just reacted to the word inhumane. I just don't agree with general population of how it is used. That's another story though.


I did see myself as a vampire eating up "values" by others. It was a long time ago but I am still unsure on whether or not I am that. I guess just reflecting upon it and finding that time quite... horrible is enough doubt to convince me I am otherwise.

I always reach this wall of uncertainty. I had a clear view once and now there's but pieces left.
 

the state i am in

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that's what happens when you work things out and attempt to move on to more complex understandings. there's always more unseating the finished product. trying to figure it out is a huge part of the process of determining what it means to you. exploring via Ne- there's no shame in that. we all have our methods with their own strengths and weaknesses. i too easily see people as if they are ideas, looking thru them for a conceptual picture of which they are but a single cell. we all have diverging paths to becoming ethical and humane, while still being practical, functional, adaptable, and capable of getting/synthesizing new information. valuing what is here while imagining something better, being open to something better, etc.
 

forzen

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I do this, without purposely doing it conciously. Its been a annoying habit of mine, usually when i like what someone's doing/characteristic, i end up copying. I'm not as annoyed now as when i was a bit younger when i cared about being a individual (different).
 

Serendipity

the Dark Prophet of Kualu
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I do this, without purposely doing it conciously. Its been a annoying habit of mine, usually when i like what someone's doing/characteristic, i end up copying. I'm not as annoyed now as when i was a bit younger when i cared about being a individual (different).

How is an individual specially related to being different?
 

forzen

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How is an individual specially related to being different?

Well to put it simply, "unique". Which was ironic since i like to wear all the brand clothing that all the other school kids was wearing. I was so clueless. But aren't we all at that age :D.
 

Serendipity

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Well to put it simply, "unique". Which was ironic since i like to wear all the brand clothing that all the other school kids was wearing. I was so clueless. But aren't we all at that age :D.

Um, have you seen your peers around you? Most of them try to find common ground to stay common yet unique when you know them very personally. At least that is how it's done in Stockholm, more or less.

As for me, I've always sought out the anomalies. It's like a quest. Rather lovely one too.


I think someone in this thread said IxxP tend to do this. I disagree.
I think it's based on maturity. And possibly insights, concerning the life lived within to the out.

OOT: is P somewhat creating possibilities on what is not there yet and J more of a value system that is based on what is?
 

janey_girl

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Feb 18, 2009
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Interesting, this mirroring...

I consider myself a bit of a "pleasure Gelph" (like the one in Red Dwarf) - where I "feed" people the part of me that I know will please them. I find out about them and mirror values, ideas, plans the whole nine yards - I often joke that if you got all of the different people I know to talk about me their accounts would vary wildly as I am a different person with each of them...

This for me though is a "personality flaw" in me - because of the intensity of it, it has to do with low self esteem and the inability to "be myself" and has become a coping mechanism for me to be able to deal with others on a daily basis without the risk of being rejected. Unfortunately with it is the paranoia of letting this "false me" slip and allowing the real me out and worrying this will lead to the other person despising me... The irony is, the more I do this mirroring/pleasure gelphing the more I hate myself and the more others pick up on it....

It is almost empathy gone crazy in my case.... To be me again without the pretence -*sigh* I am working towards that...
 

forzen

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Um, have you seen your peers around you? Most of them try to find common ground to stay common yet unique when you know them very personally. At least that is how it's done in Stockholm, more or less.

As for me, I've always sought out the anomalies. It's like a quest. Rather lovely one too.


I think someone in this thread said IxxP tend to do this. I disagree.
I think it's based on maturity. And possibly insights, concerning the life lived within to the out.

OOT: is P somewhat creating possibilities on what is not there yet and J more of a value system that is based on what is?

That might have been the case. I only notice noticeable traits that i copied from someone vs the one that they might have copied from me to stay on even ground. Then again, i have no clue what unique actions i do, so more or less that's probably why i don't notice, because i don't know what to look for.
 

Fluffywolf

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As an INTP, yes, and consciously as well. But only if I have certain expectations of the person I communicate with or find that there is some deeper understanding to why I should behave the way I will.

I think it's pretty important for INTP's to be able to do so too. I dunno where I would be without doing this.
 

Serendipity

the Dark Prophet of Kualu
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Then again, I have no clue what unique actions I do, so more or less that's probably why I don't notice, because I don't know what to look for.

Well, lately, I've been called weird/crazy/insane/having a few screws loose and I honestly find that most other people are weird/crazy. I've met insane people in a psychiatric emergency and I am not insane. That much I know.

What I want to point out is; I don't notice my unique behavior because it is normal for me to act the way I act. Why wouldn't it be? I've lived my life for 21 years by now. Well, I do know how I act differently in a few cases but I think everyone act differently given the right circumstances.


What I've found out so far is that I am xNxJ. I am both idealist and rationalist.

But the quote that really got to me was:

"What I cannot create, I cannot understand."

Richard Feynman

and it fits very well with my way of mirroring. To understand someone else, I need to be able to build it myself and where else if not in me?
 

forzen

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Well, lately, I've been called weird/crazy/insane/having a few screws loose and I honestly find that most other people are weird/crazy. I've met insane people in a psychiatric emergency and I am not insane. That much I know.

What I want to point out is; I don't notice my unique behavior because it is normal for me to act the way I act. Why wouldn't it be? I've lived my life for 21 years by now. Well, I do know how I act differently in a few cases but I think everyone act differently given the right circumstances.


What I've found out so far is that I am xNxJ. I am both idealist and rationalist.

But the quote that really got to me was:

"What I cannot create, I cannot understand."

Richard Feynman

and it fits very well with my way of mirroring. To understand someone else, I need to be able to build it myself and where else if not in me?

Of course some people will sometimes find you weird/crazy because they don't know the reasons behind some of your actions and they find it strange. Its impossible to understand everyone, because there are so many ways a person can grow up and different ideals/experience that shaped them. Not to mention every person perceives the same event differently. Its like dropping something on the ground and you don't know where it will fall; up, sideway, or down. So mirroring someone doesn't necessarily means you can understand someone, because the way you perceive said action will probably be viewed differently because of diffent value/experience.

But i do agree that it can be use to create a common grounds. But to understand someone, you need to know their foundation.

I need to read some of Richard Feynman's book, people do talk highly of him.
 
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