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[MBTI General] Do you mirror and add personality traits to be able to converse "normally"?

Kalach

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Coz see, if I notice someone mirroring me, I truly am very likely to stop and say, "What the hell are you doing?" Not angry, just observational, and a bit like I'm being intruded upon. I don't even like walking in step with strangers on the street. An extension of the not liking to be touched thing.

Unless it's some babe. Then her mirroring me is--I had always assumed--until just now!!!--am actionable sign of authentic interest.
 

Kalach

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Actually, this raises a question I've been thinking about, namely, harmony. More exactly, the difference between:

taking advantage of conventions to create and maintain feeling, and
negotiating possibilities and creating reality.


Taking advantage of conventions is, like,--simple example--using "Hi, how are you?" because the answer is, and should, be, "I'm fine. How are you?" One knows what's supposed to happen in reply, so one uses the gambit to get that reply.

Negotiating possibilities is, like,--again with a simple, possibly wrong, example--using "Hi, how are you?" and expecting in reply a statement of actual state, something that doesn't follow the form, but instead answers the question as if it were real.


If I were thinking I might try being rude, I'd suggest the difference between the two is the difference between S and N. But I don't think it is. Coz everyone's got an S and an N.
 

Valiant

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Feels like this thread kind of derailed badly - even if ever so serious - when I left for some BBQ, beer and whiskey half a day ago. :D
 

Kalach

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The price of management is eternal vigilance.

Nonetheless, mirroring is, presumably, a tool of harmony. If people are in synch, or think they're in synch, they can share positive feeling more easily.

I guess.

Is that the real reason? Or is it just learning?
 

Serendipity

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So I'm going to go ahead and say this topic is freaking me right out. There's people who "mirror" and like it? Well, I'm aware of the meaning of mirroring, say, body language, and as far as I know I'm conscious of avoiding mirroring, and if I mimic other people's language I'm aware of doing it and it generally has a sarcastic tone... and there may be other stuff that I'm not aware of (and I don't like that idea, but it may be true.)

So, I suppose I gotta ask, all you mirror-ers, are there people you don't need to mirror? I mean, people you don't need to work at copying to be close with. Or even if, say, you meet a dual, do you mirror them, but it's easier because those functions are part of your own?

I mean, am I hanging out with duals and thinking the communication is great, but it's only because they're copying my style? Is that good for them?

I don't really work on getting close to anyone. I want to understand why. And how if possible. I have around 80-90 different personalities in me right now, and not all of them blended into one. I don't choose one that is the EXACT of yours. That would be impossible and also obsolete. I need to understand your responses, right? So how do I get a response from you the most? By being someone else. It's quite simple, isn't it?
But with common ground somewhere.

No I definitely do not change my values and truths just to get along or fit in with people :shocking:

I will adapt behavior to get along with people. I will observe people and how they interact and mimic what seems to be successful mainly because I have weak social skills. I would say I am "learning" more than "mirroring". I admit that many things people say and do socially puzzle me. It seems so mediocre and fake sometimes, and I wonder how it is people bond and interact under these terms. I wonder why my natural way is so "wrong".... Someone told me that introverted people often have to "act" to a degree socially to be successful, and that's what I feel like. I really don't like it though, and it's exhausting.


Well, in my opinion, I don't act. I just play a lie for my own mind.
And it is not for the sole goal of getting along nor fitting in. Who cares about fitting in anyhow? o_O
It's about rendering the personality that I like the most out of as many options as possible. Not really for the sake of others but myself. And I do want to learn how to handle someone that I don't get at all. And I get to know small personal truths that wouldn't have reached me otherwise. I must admit that I have somewhat lessened in the degree of mirroring nowadays, I am quite cool with what I have gotten but there's still much much more! :D


Actually, this raises a question I've been thinking about, namely, harmony. More exactly, the difference between:

taking advantage of conventions to create and maintain feeling, and
negotiating possibilities and creating reality.


Taking advantage of conventions is, like,--simple example--using "Hi, how are you?" because the answer is, and should, be, "I'm fine. How are you?" One knows what's supposed to happen in reply, so one uses the gambit to get that reply.

Negotiating possibilities is, like,--again with a simple, possibly wrong, example--using "Hi, how are you?" and expecting in reply a statement of actual state, something that doesn't follow the form, but instead answers the question as if it were real.


If I were thinking I might try being rude, I'd suggest the difference between the two is the difference between S and N. But I don't think it is. Coz everyone's got an S and an N.

I don't do nice replies. I hate nice replies. Nice replies are for those that cannot admit how they are. Sure, I do mirror. Sure, I lie to myself sometimes so much that the reality of mine isn't what it is for others. Well, it ain't anyway even if I am the one I am deep below the crust. But I still give the most honest answer I can at the time. Do I feel bad at the time, I tell whom ever ask that answer. I don't need to lie in a lie. That's nothing but a mess.

During "someone else" I may not always be in contact with the mind inside. It does not exist. Why should it? I am who I am, am I not?

The price of management is eternal vigilance.

Nonetheless, mirroring is, presumably, a tool of harmony. If people are in sync, or think they're in sync, they can share positive feeling more easily.

I guess.

Is that the real reason? Or is it just learning?

It's never just learning. It's also teaching.
Something that is amiss though is that it's not about fitting in. It's about finding common ground in a world of chaos and share. I'll never get your experiences, but I want them.
You'll never get mine, but I believe you want them.

I also like to play with my mind to see how far I can go. It sure as hell gets painful but also painless and wonderful.


I mean isn't it obvious? o_O
To understand someone and to be able to communicate your truths in their level.
And to receive their truths in their level and to actually understand it.

Anyhow, it's also a shell. But that's a defense mechanism that isn't always conscious.


I can't understand why this would be wrong.
I have my values inside. In a protected vault. They may change when I find that another value is of more importance. Or creates a larger impact.

At least I can say I have been there and seen somewhat what others have, but that does not mean that I agree. It only means that I've found a tunnel of communication.


I hope I fall apart in my reasoning. That would give me a jolt.
 

Serendipity

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Unless it's some babe. Then her mirroring me is--I had always assumed--until just now!!!--am actionable sign of authentic interest.

So what in my mirroring is NOT actual interest?
I mean, sure I do not express sexual interest but I am damn interested in you, as a human being, being on the other side of the table of whom I am trying to listen to?
But then again I do not mirror in contact with said person as much.
 

Serendipity

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Something else I've also come to the conclusion of is that mirroring helps to use and develop traits I wouldn't have had unless I got to know about them by someone else who is distinctively different from me.

So my guess is that this is also used in development of my own true self.
 

Kalach

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So what in my mirroring is NOT actual interest?

Well, coz it doesn't sound like it's you I'd be seeing. It sounds like it's "me". So whether you're interested in me or not, you're not interested in letting me be interested in you. So how interested in me are you really?
 

Serendipity

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Well, coz it doesn't sound like it's you I'd be seeing. It sounds like it's "me". So whether you're interested in me or not, you're not interested in letting me be interested in you. So how interested in me are you really?

I'm just scared. Is my own personal response right there.


Guh. Blah. I'mjustgoingtogowithoutfurthernotice...
 

Kalach

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I know. It's okay. I don't think you've been describing something unusual. The emphasis is unusual, but I guess the practice is fairly normal. Sorta. I was just blind-sided by the implications..

What I assume happens *for everyone* is they do defend their borders in their various ways. And particularly what has happened for me as I've gotten older is I guess a combination of some personal confidence and a growing sense that defending my borders is starting to lose me more than it gains now, so being anyone other than I am is a waste of increasingly precious time. I might end up dead before having shown at least someone everything I have.

Yuck.
 

Serendipity

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What I assume happens *for everyone* is they do defend their borders in their various ways. And particularly what has happened for me as I've gotten older is I guess a combination of some personal confidence and a growing sense that defending my borders is starting to lose me more than it gains now, so being anyone other than I am is a waste of increasingly precious time. I might end up dead before having shown at least someone everything I have.

Well, that was why I turned outwards and sort of ended up as enfp. I couldn't really live without having people all around me but it was also a defense mechanism so that I wouldn't have to deal with what I got in front of me. :/

Nowadays I don't mirror as much or at all. I bring myself forward in different contexts instead. Using different ways but not always being at the front myself. If I am seen as very talkative and weirdly uppety up, then that's probably not me out of my shell. If I do get out I am awkward and have very few pinpointed questions that I want to know and then I just listen to whatever else it want to talk about.

Imo MBTI is psychology for the masses.
 

Skyward

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Imo MBTI is psychology for the masses.

It's a vocabulary system and a way to understand what a person does with information. I agree that it's for the masses, but too bad everyone but the NTs and NFs I know tend to ignore it as unuseful.

I find that I do morph a bit when social. It isnt to the point where I forget who I am. I'm pushing myself to be quiet longer and think before I say things. If anything it will help me be understood and not get weird looks because lately Ive been incoherent and mush-mouthed.
 

Lady_X

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i think being a ne dom makes me aware of the commonalities between myself and whomever i'm speaking with....so it's not really mirroring as much as relating to that thing that we both share.

but often times...we're not similar at all and they just bring out some other part of my personality...like with some people i may be really jokey and tease them..in a sibling sort of way...or i'm extra silly with this person...or more serious with this one....mature with this one...immature with that one...it's quite possible enfps are schizophrenic....a lil bit
 

Chloe

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Now, to the questions;

Do you do something similar to this or not?

How has it affected your life so far?

Does it improve your social life?

I used to do this when I was in highschool, sometimes when was uncomfortable. I don't do this any more, it's painful. (Everybody do this in certain amount of course, but thats not what we talking about here as I think).

answers;
no. very very rarely. (it takes effort to not-do this, and of course better connection to your real feelings).
2. it is just painful and idiotic
3. no. because you feel fake and there is nothing worth in it.
 

sculpting

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i think being a ne dom makes me aware of the commonalities between myself and whomever i'm speaking with....so it's not really mirroring as much as relating to that thing that we both share.

but often times...we're not similar at all and they just bring out some other part of my personality...like with some people i may be really jokey and tease them..in a sibling sort of way...or i'm extra silly with this person...or more serious with this one....mature with this one...immature with that one...it's quite possible enfps are schizophrenic....a lil bit

Are you aware of picking a certain way to interact with them or does it just come out on its own without thought? Like you intuitively Ne match what they need you to be?
 

Chloe

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Are you aware of picking a certain way to interact with them or does it just come out on its own without thought? Like you intuitively Ne match what they need you to be?

if you do that too often, that means your Fi is too weak... or maybe T.
Its great to have good social skills and ability to fit in and read people, but its no use unless you stay yourself.

Mirroring isn't interest. Person can be interested in other person, and she can mirror her or not. I don't think mirroring is healthy, especially if its unconcious or uncontroled.

When you fit to the person because you want to be accepted, it has nothing with interest, it is more about your Fi not feeling safe. But that doesnt mean one don't have interest in others - but mirroring is action from fear.
 

Lady_X

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Are you aware of picking a certain way to interact with them or does it just come out on its own without thought? Like you intuitively Ne match what they need you to be?

not aware of it at the time..no. and i don't even think it has anything to do with what they need me to be...it's just a natural reaction to their presence..in much the same way as my mood on a rainy day or gorgeous sunny one...or walking into work and seeing someone brought cupcakes...haha...if that makes sense.

occasionally i'll become aware of it after the fact...like the way i've noticed i am with certain other enfps...a bit more free to be weird or or teasing and obnoxious or whatever.

edit: also what i meant about sensing commonalities was that i could pick up on similar interests we might have and so i might bring up a conversation about that.

i'm not feeling very eloquent at the moment so please excuse that mess of a post. :blush:
 

sculpting

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if you do that too often, that means your Fi is too weak... or maybe T.
Its great to have good social skills and ability to fit in and read people, but its no use unless you stay yourself.

Mirroring isn't interest. Person can be interested in other person, and she can mirror her or not. I don't think mirroring is healthy, especially if its unconcious or uncontroled.

When you fit to the person because you want to be accepted, it has nothing with interest, it is more about your Fi not feeling safe. But that doesnt mean one don't have interest in others - but mirroring is action from fear.

not aware of it at the time..no. and i don't even think it has anything to do with what they need me to be...it's just a natural reaction to their presence..in much the same way as my mood on a rainy day or gorgeous sunny one...or walking into work and seeing someone brought cupcakes...haha...if that makes sense.

occasionally i'll become aware of it after the fact...like the way i've noticed i am with certain other enfps...a bit more free to be weird or or teasing and obnoxious or whatever.

I have always done this naturally not understanding what i was doing. Not to be accepted-I have never been accepted as such anyways-but to make for better communication. Mirroring may not be the best term. I dont copy them. Instead I "catch" hooks they throw out and interact via those "hooks". I mold to thier crevices, thier niches and interact with parts of them that they allow outwards... I mold myself to interact and communicate with them in a way they seem to understand best???

My core remains stable, my desires, goals and thoughts are the same, but what I show them of myself will change. My speech, tone, vocabulary, gestures, expressions, and so on. It is spontaneous and happens without any thought of my own once I have known the person for about five minutes. It isnt fake or put on in anyway, it seems to be a natural reaction. Once I know someone a bit better, I immediately will morph into the most natural mode of interaction with them, again with no conscious thought.

Now that I understand the functions-I am subconciously picking the best function to match/communicate with them.

For instance for an INTJ this ends up being Fi, for an estj it would be using tertiary Te.

For entps I swap between Ne-Fi and Ne-Te depending on what I am communicating. Some types I dont have a "hook" to catch on so I dont interact well with them-esfp/estp for instance. I just dont have a natural mode that works well with them and end up being very ackward for a long period of time.

Now that I understand what I am doing, I worry about using this ability to switch modes in a manipulative way, even though it is perfectly natural to do so for me. None of these things are not me, they are just different faces of what I am. ????
 

Thalassa

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I was raised by a very pushy woman who wanted me to be an extrovert. She didn't understand why I was an introvert and thought it could be changed or grown out of. As a result, I have learned to perform. Even though I'm an introvert, I am capable of performing on stage (sometimes) and can speak up for myself. The speaking up for myself is a good thing. The performing, not so much. The older I get the less inclined I feel to "perform" - not just on stage, but in life. It was something I was pushed into and it took me a while as a young adult to let it go. It screwed me up and caused problems for me in my relationships. Now that I'm a more complete adult I find that I adapt less and less. Now I know how to say, "I need to be alone" because it's exhausting to keep "performing" if it's not your natural inclination. But yeah, I guess this is something I've experienced that fits your question of adding personality traits to please others.
 

Lady_X

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I have always done this naturally not understanding what i was doing. Not to be accepted-I have never been accepted as such anyways-but to make for better communication. Mirroring may not be the best term. I dont copy them. Instead I "catch" hooks they throw out and interact via those "hooks". I mold to thier crevices, thier niches and interact with parts of them that they allow outwards... I mold myself to interact and communicate with them in a way they seem to understand best???

My core remains stable, my desires, goals and thoughts are the same, but what I show them of myself will change. My speech, tone, vocabulary, gestures, expressions, and so on. It is spontaneous and happens without any thought of my own once I have known the person for about five minutes. It isnt fake or put on in anyway, it seems to be a natural reaction. Once I know someone a bit better, I immediately will morph into the most natural mode of interaction with them, again with no conscious thought.

Now that I understand the functions-I am subconciously picking the best function to match/communicate with them.

For instance for an INTJ this ends up being Fi, for an estj it would be using tertiary Te.

For entps I swap between Ne-Fi and Ne-Te depending on what I am communicating. Some types I dont have a "hook" to catch on so I dont interact well with them-esfp/estp for instance. I just dont have a natural mode that works well with them and end up being very ackward for a long period of time.

Now that I understand what I am doing, I worry about using this ability to switch modes in a manipulative way, even though it is perfectly natural to do so for me. None of these things are not me, they are just different faces of what I am. ????

interesting..yeah..i think in a work environment it would be that way yeah...so...must be why we're naturals at interpersonal relations right...i mean that's what they say right? it's just the way we use our ne a lot of the time...i guess??
 
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