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  1. #21
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Coz see, if I notice someone mirroring me, I truly am very likely to stop and say, "What the hell are you doing?" Not angry, just observational, and a bit like I'm being intruded upon. I don't even like walking in step with strangers on the street. An extension of the not liking to be touched thing.

    Unless it's some babe. Then her mirroring me is--I had always assumed--until just now!!!--am actionable sign of authentic interest.

  2. #22
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Actually, this raises a question I've been thinking about, namely, harmony. More exactly, the difference between:

    taking advantage of conventions to create and maintain feeling, and
    negotiating possibilities and creating reality.


    Taking advantage of conventions is, like,--simple example--using "Hi, how are you?" because the answer is, and should, be, "I'm fine. How are you?" One knows what's supposed to happen in reply, so one uses the gambit to get that reply.

    Negotiating possibilities is, like,--again with a simple, possibly wrong, example--using "Hi, how are you?" and expecting in reply a statement of actual state, something that doesn't follow the form, but instead answers the question as if it were real.


    If I were thinking I might try being rude, I'd suggest the difference between the two is the difference between S and N. But I don't think it is. Coz everyone's got an S and an N.

  3. #23
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Feels like this thread kind of derailed badly - even if ever so serious - when I left for some BBQ, beer and whiskey half a day ago.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  4. #24
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    The price of management is eternal vigilance.

    Nonetheless, mirroring is, presumably, a tool of harmony. If people are in synch, or think they're in synch, they can share positive feeling more easily.

    I guess.

    Is that the real reason? Or is it just learning?

  5. #25
    the Dark Prophet of Kualu
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    So I'm going to go ahead and say this topic is freaking me right out. There's people who "mirror" and like it? Well, I'm aware of the meaning of mirroring, say, body language, and as far as I know I'm conscious of avoiding mirroring, and if I mimic other people's language I'm aware of doing it and it generally has a sarcastic tone... and there may be other stuff that I'm not aware of (and I don't like that idea, but it may be true.)

    So, I suppose I gotta ask, all you mirror-ers, are there people you don't need to mirror? I mean, people you don't need to work at copying to be close with. Or even if, say, you meet a dual, do you mirror them, but it's easier because those functions are part of your own?

    I mean, am I hanging out with duals and thinking the communication is great, but it's only because they're copying my style? Is that good for them?
    I don't really work on getting close to anyone. I want to understand why. And how if possible. I have around 80-90 different personalities in me right now, and not all of them blended into one. I don't choose one that is the EXACT of yours. That would be impossible and also obsolete. I need to understand your responses, right? So how do I get a response from you the most? By being someone else. It's quite simple, isn't it?
    But with common ground somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    No I definitely do not change my values and truths just to get along or fit in with people

    I will adapt behavior to get along with people. I will observe people and how they interact and mimic what seems to be successful mainly because I have weak social skills. I would say I am "learning" more than "mirroring". I admit that many things people say and do socially puzzle me. It seems so mediocre and fake sometimes, and I wonder how it is people bond and interact under these terms. I wonder why my natural way is so "wrong".... Someone told me that introverted people often have to "act" to a degree socially to be successful, and that's what I feel like. I really don't like it though, and it's exhausting.

    Well, in my opinion, I don't act. I just play a lie for my own mind.
    And it is not for the sole goal of getting along nor fitting in. Who cares about fitting in anyhow? o.O
    It's about rendering the personality that I like the most out of as many options as possible. Not really for the sake of others but myself. And I do want to learn how to handle someone that I don't get at all. And I get to know small personal truths that wouldn't have reached me otherwise. I must admit that I have somewhat lessened in the degree of mirroring nowadays, I am quite cool with what I have gotten but there's still much much more!


    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Actually, this raises a question I've been thinking about, namely, harmony. More exactly, the difference between:

    taking advantage of conventions to create and maintain feeling, and
    negotiating possibilities and creating reality.


    Taking advantage of conventions is, like,--simple example--using "Hi, how are you?" because the answer is, and should, be, "I'm fine. How are you?" One knows what's supposed to happen in reply, so one uses the gambit to get that reply.

    Negotiating possibilities is, like,--again with a simple, possibly wrong, example--using "Hi, how are you?" and expecting in reply a statement of actual state, something that doesn't follow the form, but instead answers the question as if it were real.


    If I were thinking I might try being rude, I'd suggest the difference between the two is the difference between S and N. But I don't think it is. Coz everyone's got an S and an N.
    I don't do nice replies. I hate nice replies. Nice replies are for those that cannot admit how they are. Sure, I do mirror. Sure, I lie to myself sometimes so much that the reality of mine isn't what it is for others. Well, it ain't anyway even if I am the one I am deep below the crust. But I still give the most honest answer I can at the time. Do I feel bad at the time, I tell whom ever ask that answer. I don't need to lie in a lie. That's nothing but a mess.

    During "someone else" I may not always be in contact with the mind inside. It does not exist. Why should it? I am who I am, am I not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    The price of management is eternal vigilance.

    Nonetheless, mirroring is, presumably, a tool of harmony. If people are in sync, or think they're in sync, they can share positive feeling more easily.

    I guess.

    Is that the real reason? Or is it just learning?
    It's never just learning. It's also teaching.
    Something that is amiss though is that it's not about fitting in. It's about finding common ground in a world of chaos and share. I'll never get your experiences, but I want them.
    You'll never get mine, but I believe you want them.

    I also like to play with my mind to see how far I can go. It sure as hell gets painful but also painless and wonderful.


    I mean isn't it obvious? o.O
    To understand someone and to be able to communicate your truths in their level.
    And to receive their truths in their level and to actually understand it.

    Anyhow, it's also a shell. But that's a defense mechanism that isn't always conscious.


    I can't understand why this would be wrong.
    I have my values inside. In a protected vault. They may change when I find that another value is of more importance. Or creates a larger impact.

    At least I can say I have been there and seen somewhat what others have, but that does not mean that I agree. It only means that I've found a tunnel of communication.


    I hope I fall apart in my reasoning. That would give me a jolt.
    Open for interpretation.
    Jo
    Fell for the temptation: Nohari / Johari

  6. #26
    the Dark Prophet of Kualu
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Unless it's some babe. Then her mirroring me is--I had always assumed--until just now!!!--am actionable sign of authentic interest.
    So what in my mirroring is NOT actual interest?
    I mean, sure I do not express sexual interest but I am damn interested in you, as a human being, being on the other side of the table of whom I am trying to listen to?
    But then again I do not mirror in contact with said person as much.
    Open for interpretation.
    Jo
    Fell for the temptation: Nohari / Johari

  7. #27
    the Dark Prophet of Kualu
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    Something else I've also come to the conclusion of is that mirroring helps to use and develop traits I wouldn't have had unless I got to know about them by someone else who is distinctively different from me.

    So my guess is that this is also used in development of my own true self.
    Open for interpretation.
    Jo
    Fell for the temptation: Nohari / Johari

  8. #28
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gtzk View Post
    So what in my mirroring is NOT actual interest?
    Well, coz it doesn't sound like it's you I'd be seeing. It sounds like it's "me". So whether you're interested in me or not, you're not interested in letting me be interested in you. So how interested in me are you really?

  9. #29
    the Dark Prophet of Kualu
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Well, coz it doesn't sound like it's you I'd be seeing. It sounds like it's "me". So whether you're interested in me or not, you're not interested in letting me be interested in you. So how interested in me are you really?
    I'm just scared. Is my own personal response right there.


    Guh. Blah. I'mjustgoingtogowithoutfurthernotice...
    Open for interpretation.
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    Fell for the temptation: Nohari / Johari

  10. #30
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I know. It's okay. I don't think you've been describing something unusual. The emphasis is unusual, but I guess the practice is fairly normal. Sorta. I was just blind-sided by the implications..

    What I assume happens *for everyone* is they do defend their borders in their various ways. And particularly what has happened for me as I've gotten older is I guess a combination of some personal confidence and a growing sense that defending my borders is starting to lose me more than it gains now, so being anyone other than I am is a waste of increasingly precious time. I might end up dead before having shown at least someone everything I have.

    Yuck.

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