[NF] NF's supposedly hate conflict, yet...

[indigo2020]

Spot on.

I typically enter a conflict if it seems it will reduce future conflicts. Any conflict is an investment because it depletes the NF. I attempt to conceptualize the big picture and determine which battles are most worth fighting to get the best result long term. I can't say i ever 'enjoy' any conflict though. Short-term conflicts can promote long-term tolerance and peace.

well said Toonia.

 

[indigo2020]

I wonder how you came to this conclusion - any evidence? I mean, is it based around Beren's social styles? TKI inventories? Did Jung or Myers say anything about this?

Cause in almost every case of mapping type to conflict styles, the nature of interactions/conflict is not based around N/S at all... it is historically based across two dimensions - people and tasks (namely, F/T and J/P)... The degree of conflict has been found along the lines of neuroticism and depending on the conflict being talked about, extroversion... Leaving, ironically, only the N/S divide as the only one that has never been deemed relevent.

Tests like Disc and Firo... they are based around the managerial grid model, just as social styles and nearly every conflict measurement system out there does... So just to sum up - they all use some form of F/T and J/P, some more modern ones will use neuroticism. Almost all use a gradient or quantrant approach, meaning no absolutes. And I don't know of any conflict inventories that use N/S/Openess/etc.

your reply demonstrates BW's point superbly.

 

[ptgatsby]

your reply demonstrates BW's point superbly.

Please, do explain.

 

[heart]

can you give us an example?

Here are some of the milder ones:

"You must stop calling me and screaming into phone at me when you are drunk."

"Please stop bad mouthing K's wife I feel uncomfortable put in the middle of this. If you want her to be more open to contact with you, my honest advice is to start being more civil to her, but leave me out of it."

"Please stop constantly critcizing your son. I am his wife and I get tired of hearing it. Have some respect and stop using me as a dumping ground for your disappointments with him."

 

[indigo2020]

Please, do explain.

I was attempting (badly) to make a joke about BW's first post on this thread where he says that sensors tend to nitpick (I am paraphrasing here) far more than do intuitives. I was a little tired and did not get the smiley on the end of my sentence so you would see it was a joke and I am exhausted now so try to imagine their is a great big wonderful smilie. Ciao.

 

[Sahara]

I dislike conflict so they tell me, yet that doesn't explain the way I seem to end up in conflict all the time lol.

Sometimes I may back down from asserting myself, but lately in the last year or so I seem to be the one heading the conflict, getting into fights outside or flame wars online all because I refuse to back down.

Disliking conflict is purely based on my mood at this moment in time, I never know when to pinpoint the mood shift, but when it happens I seem to seek out conflict.

Maybe it helps that I am an activist against a certain type of fundamentlism, so I have a target when I am looking for conflict, but even friends fall in the line of fire at those moments.

Someone once described Te as seeming like a bully, and I wonder if that is where my desire for conflict froms?

(I'm a nice person, really I am, just maybe a tad too aggressive lol)

 

[indigo2020]

Here are some of the milder ones:

"You must stop calling me and screaming into phone at me when you are drunk."

"Please stop bad mouthing K's wife I feel uncomfortable put in the middle of this. If you want her to be more open to contact with you, my honest advice is to start being more civil to her, but leave me out of it."

"Please stop constantly critcizing your son. I am his wife and I get tired of hearing it. Have some respect and stop using me as a dumping ground for your disappointments with him."

I can see that the words you use are very different than the words I would use. It seems (and I hate to say this because I don't want to stereotype anyone) that INFP's in general are very poetic and flowery in their speech even when they are upset and "telling someone off" whereas INFJ's are very blunt (and even sarcastic) even when we are telling someone how much we love them (which is generally expressed very differently than INFP's).

Here is my totally off the cuff list of how the different types "tell someone off":

INTJ: you are interfering with my radon particle scanner!
INTP: what do you mean I can only check out 100 books!!!???
INFP: I don't think you should speak to me that way.
INFJ: You'd better be nice to me or I'll bite you!
ISTJ: When I tell you to jump, you say, "how high?"
ISFJ: Oh, don't mind me, I always have a heart attack after dinner.
ISFP: You cannot label me. I will not have it.
ISTP: What are you so upset about?
ENTJ: I am the smartest one. It's been proven. Don't even bother.
ENTP: I love people. What an idiot! Did you see that?
ENFP: I don't think you really like me. Do you?
ENFJ: Why do I have to do everything around here? It's not fair!
ESFJ: I don't trust you. Now tell me why I should.
ESFP: I'm done with you. No, come back. No, I am done with you. Wait!
ESTP: Talk to the hand, baby, talk to the hand.
ESTJ: Why would you think you could possibly know anything I don't know?

 

[Sahara]

They were mild heart lol, my experiences this weekend were that the milder ones just don't work.

"please respect my need to be alone" didn't work, "you need to understand that I am a recluse and I don;t want to come over" didn't work, "Honestly, going to see them causes me alot of emotional upset, and if you respected me you wouldn't be trying to make me go" also didn't work.

What worked?

"Listen idiot, I told you 10 times in the nicest way possible that I am not going, if you don;t like it then you can f*ck right off"

 

[Totenkindly]

They were mild heart lol, my experiences this weekend were that the milder ones just don't work.
"please respect my need to be alone" didn't work, "you need to understand that I am a recluse and I don;t want to come over" didn't work, "Honestly, going to see them causes me alot of emotional upset, and if you respected me you wouldn't be trying to make me go" also didn't work.
What worked?
"Listen idiot, I told you 10 times in the nicest way possible that I am not going, if you don;t like it then you can f*ck right off"

But that's not "conflict" -- that's just pragmatic problem resolution!

Sigh. Sometimes people just have to given the 'straight answer.'

 

[Sahara]

But that's not "conflict" -- that's just pragmatic problem resolution!

Sigh. Sometimes people just have to given the 'straight answer.'

The thing is they were using my Fi to guilt me into going to see my family (shudder), it was conflict as in the end I had to switch off my phone as yet another row broke out at the way I handled it, especially seeing as how I gave them all a verbal thrashing for 30yrs of pain in my life lol

So conflict came out of me having to say it harsh, being assertive with these people doesn;t work, they keep coming at me, knowing that the old me would be assertive for all of 3 tries from them and then I would give in. Now I don;t give in, and can go all mental rage girl if they keep trying.

I don;t avoid conflict as much as I used to.

 

[Totenkindly]

So conflict came out of me having to say it harsh, being assertive with these people doesn;t work, they keep coming at me, knowing that the old me would be assertive for all of 3 tries from them and then I would give in. Now I don;t give in, and can go all mental rage girl if they keep trying. I don;t avoid conflict as much as I used to.

You give it to them, girl!

Sometimes conflict is appropriate. If someone is not respecting your first few answers and continues to try to violate/ignore your boundaries, then you need to spell it out in no uncertain terms. That's my opinion. You needed to make the lines clear. So good for you.

It's just that you are still learning how, so your early attempts will probably be too harsh. But that gets better over time, with practice.

 

[Celtinfj]

The correlation between N+ and F is very weak and the A+ to F is not quite strong enough to say F = N & A at all, unless there is a specific paper that I haven't seen that shows something other than the direct correlation.

This is true even if you strip the descriptors down and compare them - there isn't that much core overlap and even some anti-correlated traits between F and A+. There is nearly no overlap between N+ and F at that level.

Dude...seriously...humans are not math or science formulas. While I have this intense desire to figure out some universal formula to apply to all people so I can neatly and orderly put them in a box, I also realize this just isn't going to happen, and I don't think I would really like it much if it did.

To be perfectly honest, I finally stopped avoiding conflict because I was tired of being a doormat. The only reason I was walked all over was because I would do anything to avoid it, and bullies and narcissists soon realized this, inaccurately labeled me 'spineless' and took full advantage. When I mulled all this over, I realized that the main reason I behaved that way was because I wanted so much for them to like me, as if being liked somehow made me a better person. Then I just as quickly realized, they DIDN'T...how can you like someone you have no respect for? Further that with the realization that *I* didn't like them much either, and why was I bending over backwards to accommodate some asshole who doesn't warrant it....that's when I tentatively began to push back. The results were astounding.

Now I will not back down. I will push back, every time. I trust my sense of justice and fairness, but I don't hesitate to give someone the same treatment as they give me, partially because I've learned that this absolutely stops them in their tracks, but also, this completely defuses bullies and narcissists, almost resetting them like computers. They cannot function when their own behaviour is tossed back at them. With other types, like the passive/aggressive ones, they are so emotionally unrealized I just leave. There is no point in confronting them because they will never cop to their shit.

To the OP, I think it seems like NF's are over dramatic or over emotional because they take the crap for so long that when it finally does come out, as it has no choice, rather than being a strong stream of emotion aimed at the target, it becomes a huge firestorm, burning the target and everything around it.

 

[ptgatsby]

Dude...seriously...humans are not math or science formulas. While I have this intense desire to figure out some universal formula to apply to all people so I can neatly and orderly put them in a box, I also realize this just isn't going to happen, and I don't think I would really like it much if it did.

I wasn't saying that - the argument was merely how two self-scoring tests overlap.

 

[quietmusician]

I avoid conflicts, but if I'm pushed too far physically I'll make a move to start something. I definitely don't go out of my way to cause trouble. Yet it always seems to find me and I hate that backed into a corner feeling.

 

[redacted]

There never seems to be more personal conflict than between NF's. Explain.

Because "hating conflict" is poorly defined. And it's a silly generalization.

NFs hate conflict in the short term because it means there isn't resolution, but they may appreciate it afterward because it leads to less overall resentment, and can change things from "bad" to "good". So they may be drawn towards conflict in the long term even though they hate it in the short term.

And some NFs may have other psychological reasons for liking conflict, like getting validated by attention or proving something to themselves or whatever.

But this all applies to people of every type.

 

[Nonsensical]

I feel really uneasy when feel that some conflict is coming..but not the subtle conflict..it's more of the yelling, scowling, etc that makes feel uncomfortable..

 

[mlittrell]

when everyone has their own definition of perfection and they follow those ideals like a god then there is bound to be conflict

 

[speculative]

Conflict is the fire in which the steel of the heart is tempered...

 

[BlueScreen]

To be perfectly honest, I finally stopped avoiding conflict because I was tired of being a doormat. The only reason I was walked all over was because I would do anything to avoid it, and bullies and narcissists soon realized this, inaccurately labeled me 'spineless' and took full advantage. When I mulled all this over, I realized that the main reason I behaved that way was because I wanted so much for them to like me, as if being liked somehow made me a better person. Then I just as quickly realized, they DIDN'T...how can you like someone you have no respect for? Further that with the realization that *I* didn't like them much either, and why was I bending over backwards to accommodate some asshole who doesn't warrant it....that's when I tentatively began to push back. The results were astounding.

Now I will not back down. I will push back, every time. I trust my sense of justice and fairness, but I don't hesitate to give someone the same treatment as they give me, partially because I've learned that this absolutely stops them in their tracks, but also, this completely defuses bullies and narcissists, almost resetting them like computers. They cannot function when their own behaviour is tossed back at them. With other types, like the passive/aggressive ones, they are so emotionally unrealized I just leave. There is no point in confronting them because they will never cop to their shit.

I prefer more of the Frankie style. No one wants to get to the end of their life and say, "I did it their way!" and "I won!". Even if it works...

p.s. also it doesn't work. You feel good for getting back at them, but if you undermine a narcissist they are likely to drop to the next level and need more to rebuild, they don't cure. Mirroring can be good sometimes, but don't become the asshole or be someone you aren't to win. You'll end up with your whole life as a crusade stopping the negatives, rather than seeing the beauty. Some battles are better ignored.

 

[kiddykat]

Actually, it's quite the opposite for me. I find MORE personal conflict with those who are different from me, in aspects of values and personality. Most NFs I know I can relate to on a very personal level. Rarely will we ever butt heads. If we do, it's laughable. We shrug it off. it's the bond that easily binds us back together.

My biggest conflict is with those who are obnoxious know-it-alls, like their word is the last word for everyone.. Most people with happy and healthy mindsets don't act that way. No doubt, I can be passionate in what I say and believe in, but not to the extent of a know-it-all. I do it respectfully. They can just sit there and crap out skittles. I could care less.

I usually just give them a piece of my mind and walk away. I have no time to sit around and expend my energy on people like that. I avoid them like the plague.