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  1. #51
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    So conflict came out of me having to say it harsh, being assertive with these people doesn;t work, they keep coming at me, knowing that the old me would be assertive for all of 3 tries from them and then I would give in. Now I don;t give in, and can go all mental rage girl if they keep trying. I don;t avoid conflict as much as I used to.
    You give it to them, girl!

    Sometimes conflict is appropriate. If someone is not respecting your first few answers and continues to try to violate/ignore your boundaries, then you need to spell it out in no uncertain terms. That's my opinion. You needed to make the lines clear. So good for you.

    It's just that you are still learning how, so your early attempts will probably be too harsh. But that gets better over time, with practice.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #52
    Member Celtinfj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    The correlation between N+ and F is very weak and the A+ to F is not quite strong enough to say F = N & A at all, unless there is a specific paper that I haven't seen that shows something other than the direct correlation.

    This is true even if you strip the descriptors down and compare them - there isn't that much core overlap and even some anti-correlated traits between F and A+. There is nearly no overlap between N+ and F at that level.
    Dude...seriously...humans are not math or science formulas. While I have this intense desire to figure out some universal formula to apply to all people so I can neatly and orderly put them in a box, I also realize this just isn't going to happen, and I don't think I would really like it much if it did.

    To be perfectly honest, I finally stopped avoiding conflict because I was tired of being a doormat. The only reason I was walked all over was because I would do anything to avoid it, and bullies and narcissists soon realized this, inaccurately labeled me 'spineless' and took full advantage. When I mulled all this over, I realized that the main reason I behaved that way was because I wanted so much for them to like me, as if being liked somehow made me a better person. Then I just as quickly realized, they DIDN'T...how can you like someone you have no respect for? Further that with the realization that *I* didn't like them much either, and why was I bending over backwards to accommodate some asshole who doesn't warrant it....that's when I tentatively began to push back. The results were astounding.

    Now I will not back down. I will push back, every time. I trust my sense of justice and fairness, but I don't hesitate to give someone the same treatment as they give me, partially because I've learned that this absolutely stops them in their tracks, but also, this completely defuses bullies and narcissists, almost resetting them like computers. They cannot function when their own behaviour is tossed back at them. With other types, like the passive/aggressive ones, they are so emotionally unrealized I just leave. There is no point in confronting them because they will never cop to their shit.

    To the OP, I think it seems like NF's are over dramatic or over emotional because they take the crap for so long that when it finally does come out, as it has no choice, rather than being a strong stream of emotion aimed at the target, it becomes a huge firestorm, burning the target and everything around it.

  3. #53
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celtinfj View Post
    Dude...seriously...humans are not math or science formulas. While I have this intense desire to figure out some universal formula to apply to all people so I can neatly and orderly put them in a box, I also realize this just isn't going to happen, and I don't think I would really like it much if it did.
    I wasn't saying that - the argument was merely how two self-scoring tests overlap.

  4. #54
    Senior Member quietmusician's Avatar
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    I avoid conflicts, but if I'm pushed too far physically I'll make a move to start something. I definitely don't go out of my way to cause trouble. Yet it always seems to find me and I hate that backed into a corner feeling.

  5. #55
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    There never seems to be more personal conflict than between NF's. Explain.
    Because "hating conflict" is poorly defined. And it's a silly generalization.

    NFs hate conflict in the short term because it means there isn't resolution, but they may appreciate it afterward because it leads to less overall resentment, and can change things from "bad" to "good". So they may be drawn towards conflict in the long term even though they hate it in the short term.

    And some NFs may have other psychological reasons for liking conflict, like getting validated by attention or proving something to themselves or whatever.

    But this all applies to people of every type.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    I feel really uneasy when feel that some conflict is coming..but not the subtle conflict..it's more of the yelling, scowling, etc that makes feel uncomfortable..
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  7. #57
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    when everyone has their own definition of perfection and they follow those ideals like a god then there is bound to be conflict
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  8. #58
    Feelin' FiNe speculative's Avatar
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    Conflict is the fire in which the steel of the heart is tempered...
    "How can I be, all I want to be,
    When all I want to do is strip away these stilled constraints
    And crush this charade, shred this sad, masquerade"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeq5v7L3WM

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celtinfj View Post
    To be perfectly honest, I finally stopped avoiding conflict because I was tired of being a doormat. The only reason I was walked all over was because I would do anything to avoid it, and bullies and narcissists soon realized this, inaccurately labeled me 'spineless' and took full advantage. When I mulled all this over, I realized that the main reason I behaved that way was because I wanted so much for them to like me, as if being liked somehow made me a better person. Then I just as quickly realized, they DIDN'T...how can you like someone you have no respect for? Further that with the realization that *I* didn't like them much either, and why was I bending over backwards to accommodate some asshole who doesn't warrant it....that's when I tentatively began to push back. The results were astounding.

    Now I will not back down. I will push back, every time. I trust my sense of justice and fairness, but I don't hesitate to give someone the same treatment as they give me, partially because I've learned that this absolutely stops them in their tracks, but also, this completely defuses bullies and narcissists, almost resetting them like computers. They cannot function when their own behaviour is tossed back at them. With other types, like the passive/aggressive ones, they are so emotionally unrealized I just leave. There is no point in confronting them because they will never cop to their shit.
    I prefer more of the Frankie style. No one wants to get to the end of their life and say, "I did it their way!" and "I won!". Even if it works...

    p.s. also it doesn't work. You feel good for getting back at them, but if you undermine a narcissist they are likely to drop to the next level and need more to rebuild, they don't cure. Mirroring can be good sometimes, but don't become the asshole or be someone you aren't to win. You'll end up with your whole life as a crusade stopping the negatives, rather than seeing the beauty. Some battles are better ignored.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  10. #60
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    Actually, it's quite the opposite for me. I find MORE personal conflict with those who are different from me, in aspects of values and personality. Most NFs I know I can relate to on a very personal level. Rarely will we ever butt heads. If we do, it's laughable. We shrug it off. it's the bond that easily binds us back together.

    My biggest conflict is with those who are obnoxious know-it-alls, like their word is the last word for everyone.. Most people with happy and healthy mindsets don't act that way. No doubt, I can be passionate in what I say and believe in, but not to the extent of a know-it-all. I do it respectfully. They can just sit there and crap out skittles. I could care less.

    I usually just give them a piece of my mind and walk away. I have no time to sit around and expend my energy on people like that. I avoid them like the plague.

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