[MBTI General] INFP and Negative Work Environments

[ragashree]

Laffin'. Is that what happened?

Sensotard! Yes. . .

Just the way to catch out a bunch of INFP's, isn't it? too

 

[Anja]

I'm still laffin'.

I'm so helpful. . .

How helpful are you?

I'm so helpful that I'll help somebody who isn't even here.

 

[Deployed Imagination]

In case anyone else is tempted to post in this thread, please note the start date back in 2007 and that the person who made the OP only made 7 posts and has not posted for over a year. I sensotardishly managed to read right through the thread myself the first time without noticing these rather salient details, otherwise I very much doubt I would have posted myself. It doesn't seem likely that Denial will be back to read any of your carefully thought out responses, so unless there are any other people around who have learned too little about type to do them any good and developed a surreally obsessive prejudice against INFP's as a result, you are likely to be wasting your energy. Deployed Imagination, I appreciate you feel strongly about this due to your recent experiences, but was it REALLY necessary to ressurect this thread to in order to talk about it? There are quite a few other options for talking about your own experiences, including starting your own thread. Maybe others will think differently to me -I'm just posting this so that no-one else is misled into spending time giving an in-depth response to the OP. It seems a bit pointless now.

to be honest i hadnt realised the age of the thread etc, hadnt really considered it either, just caught my attention and provoked the response, i suppose i am at the stage where i am learning about myself all the time and i think helping others to do so too isnt a bad thing

new thread it is.. this evening! lol have a good day everyone

 

[Anja]

I'll watch for it, DI.

'sokay.

 

[ragashree]

to be honest i hadnt realised the age of the thread etc, hadnt really considered it either, just caught my attention and provoked the response, i suppose i am at the stage where i am learning about myself all the time and i think helping others to do so too isnt a bad thing

new thread it is.. this evening! lol have a good day everyone

Oh, I get it, you were being sensotard-ish yourself too and got carried away with your feelings. It happens to all of us at times and I have to admit that OP was very provocative - it almost seemed to be bordering on deliberate trolling, though I think it's more likely the person posting was just immature, confused, and misunderstanding MBTI. Yes, I think it's a good idea to start your own thread on this if you have some feelings you want to talk about. I know we INFPs tend to be reluctant to put themselves out there too directly, in case people aren't really interested, etc, etc... but on this site I think a positive and helpful response can generally be expected, so it's probably better to just take the plunge. Speaking of which, did you know there was a thread to introduce yourself? It's not exactly obligatory, but a good way to make yourself known to people when you first join. I notice no INFPs have for a long time, which is strange considering how many there are on the site. Well, feel free to break the trend of self effacement - and welcome to the site :hi:

 

[celiapleete]

Hmm...well I don't know about most of the INFPs you've dealt with, but as one myself, I just say hell with it and find another job with an employer who actually has a sense of humor.

 

[nolla]

Good questions, Denial... I don't find them at all offending, they seem like a possible scenario for myself, but it would mean that the workplace is already toxic for me and that one of the bosses is the main reason for that. So the goal would be to rebel their authority to make it less toxic. Unfortunately this doesn't have a big chance of success, so the workplace would be even more toxic.

This situation is really about INFPs who appear to contribute to, develop and ultimately champion toxic work environments.

What I've seen -- from the outide, though (if I may say so) like most INFJs I do tend to introject with unintentional clarity -- is the following formula:

1. An INFP becomes unhappy with how they are being engaged by their workplace. Specifically, an INFP feels that they aren't being appreciated for their unique talents and potential. This can express itself personally, in the INFP not being able to 'do' what they want to do, or it can express itself more abstractly, in the INFP not being able to 'be' what they want to be.

Yeah, this happened to me just a week ago. I actually ranted about it somewhere on the forum. I was not respected and my work wasn't appreciated and I didn't get along with my boss. Because I had no connection with him, I used to talk about my job with another boss and the first boss took this as a personal insult. Which it wasn't. To me it just seemed like waste of time talking to someone who doesn't understand most of the stuff I am saying, or doesn't care enough to spend a few minutes talking about the project.

2. This INFP starts to 'test workplace boundaries.' This starts out small and pedestrian, such as being a few minutes late for work, and if unmet by some entity that the INFP considers an authority (maybe a manager, maybe not), grows into overt, stark insubordination.

I wouldn't know if I tested the boundaries. I think the thing that made it awkward for my boss was that I didn't have any respect for him once he had dismissed some of my thoughts. This lack of respect had to be manifested somehow, and he probably saw that.

3. This INFP, unhappy with the quality of feedback they're getting from #2 (this can range from neglect to a continued unwillingness by others to see the INFP as unique/special), starts to *actively convert other people* into a General State of Misery (GSOM). This is especially noticed when new people enter the work environment; they are swiftly recruited by the INFP and told, in absolute terms, that life in that work environment is living hell.

Well, had I worked more time in there, maybe I would have tried to "form a resistance" but it would have been in vain since I can't really win a fight against the owner of the company, can I? The only point would have been to not feel so lonely with my hate of the atmosphere.

I think you would need to get an INFP very frustrated about the workplace before anything so dramatic happens, but it is possible, I think. Maybe there are many types of toxicity and the INFPs are reacting to one type and causing another type to surface.

 

[iwakar]

I'd rather be a Sensotard than an Intuitard!



Sensotards rawk on.

 

[Banana]

you are not being unfair

I am an INFP and have acted out in the workplace in the manner you've decribed - under extreme stress. Since INFPs can very effectively bond with others, when their own emotions are black and tangled, it makes sense that they can powerfully impact a professional environment via seemingly typical/small behaviors that in other types would be disrespected but more easily ignored.

Your frustrations strike me as genuine, btw. I appreciate your honesty.

If you are still looking for insights (not sure as your post is a year old), I would say that INFPs act out for the same reasons that anyone does - they are unhappy. Fs are particularly reactive. If you are a friend or are in a position to influence, honestly - good luck! It is a tricky business to guide INFPs out of a bad state since they pick up on and react to agendas and criticism with dislike, despite the intention.

I was always horrified to think I'd hurt anyone, even when in retrospect it should have been very clear to me that would be the result of the behavor, but the intense emotion I brought to the start of my professional interactions sunk the outcome before self awareness had time to sink in. My co-workers who cared about me were frustrated and even embarrassed at my contradictory behavior, and the people I had bad feelings towards had to deal with outright temper, sullenness and a refusal to speak sometimes. Pretty ridiculous stuff. But by the same token, there were some 'toxic" things happenng in that atmosphere that I was reacting to and not telling anyone about. And for me, people who embody bad character and duplicitous self-interest are powerfully upsetting and can flood my focus if I feel I cannot get away from them.
Perhaps if I'd made different choices re communicating what was happening, I'd have found an outlet?

As a side note, when I look back, it strikes me that "offenders" for me were ESs, a combo I have great difficulty relating to to begin with. It would have taken a concentrated effort to bridge the differences. One I would have been happy to attempt absent the antagonism.

Personally, I had to take a long vacation, then seek some treatment for stress, and then quit that job. And it changed me. If I have a final insight for you it is to see the situation for what it is (extreme stress, they feel antagonized by a particular person, etc), avoid them if the behavior is unacceptable (protect yourself), communicate your concerns to management if you feel there is no other choice. But maybe try to make them smile if you can find the emotional space - genuine kindness always gets a great response and is a lovely way to deal with a problem person - reach out to them

 

[Siegfried]

That was a very good post there. I agree that INFPs, being intuitive feelers can effect the environment since they bond so well, whether for good or bad, so small things can seem bigger than they are. A long break in spirit, can help to cool things, it would be good for everyone. In my case it'd give me time to re-orient myself and give some space to others. Thanks for all the help, it has/will make a positive difference.

 

[imaginaryart]

this thread is olldddd... and denial is long gone (probably didn't like everyone confronting him/her) but i'm still going to post. other people might read my post, who knows? :shifty eyes:

Are you sure all your presumptions are correct?

As an INFP I know I would never want to spread poison into the ears of strangers, perhaps if i worked in a negative environment I would compain heartily to my friends? But a stranger- certainly not, unless I felt that the situation I was in was so bad that I wouldn't want others to be in as much pain as I was in. I'm the type of person who will smile as the ship begins to sink and maybe this is a character trait shared by other INFPs. I'm not sure but from what I hear we are 'idealistic' and 'caring'. Caring people don't spread poison, they may be harsh and cruel, they may give out warnings, but only if they are 'trying' to help.

Now maybe I can show you the INFPs side of the story:
I had an art teacher who used to pick on me in front of the whole class, who used to call my art crap. Art is a subject where I lay my insides, all my feelings and personal experiences out and I genuinely try to compose art that reflects my take on life, so to hear that all this was crap- to be told to tear up my art pieces and collage them so that they 'look like they have meaning' was sooo increadibly hurtful it is probably beyond empathy.
Luckily my other art teacher was increadibly supportive and told me I was amazing and that I did indead have artistic skills- I'm not sure what would have happened but I wouldn't sat their suffering in silence if I didn't know of my secret support.

Now, if I didn't have any support at all and I was being bullied* like that I know I would have either began skipping classes (the only things stopping me were the fact that I didn't want to upset my parents) or I would have done something else self-destructive.

*or felt llike I was bullied, even now i know she didn't really mean to hurt my feelings- it was just that she didn't know about how deeply I was connected to my art and how deeply I felt about it all and when I tried to tell her she didn't understand. My trouble didn't stem from cruelty but from ignorance.


I don't think your co-worker is spreading poison.
I believe INFP's blow-up from the inside out. We destroy our inner world before we spread poison to the outter world- we have to have NO refuge, we have to feel so totally utterly alone and incapable of supporting ourself before we spread those awful feelings onto others.


If your co-worker is indeed an INFP, which people have pointed out is unlikely, then you should approach them tentatively and try to see what is wrong with them, before you remedy how this is effecting their behaviour.
Don't be abrasive or cruel, be kind and supporting and calm.
Everyone needs to be looked after and if this person's inner negativity is effecting your peace of mind then try and ease their mind, in an inabrasive, supporting manner.

Kill 'em with kindness!

I think most INFPs would leave a situation where they were uphappy- if they could. I would definately value my happiness over my future. I figure that I can always get a new job/ go down a new path and as long as I am alive I'm pretty much good. It seems unlikely that an 'INFP' would stay at a job they hate just so they could make money... but then again we have to remember people are people, not personality types. Everyone is different and your not going to behave in a certain manner just because your one type.


Also, you mentioned that they push the boundaries by being late? Well I don't really view lateness as something bad, I just can't help being late. I'm either ridiculously early or slightly late and you have no idea how much effort I put into being on time now that I'm in uni. I plan for hours just so I can be on time!
It takes alot of work... time that would be better off spent studying...

Maybe it's your perseption of the situation that is giving it a negative slant?
Your responses to other peoples comments seem really defensive, which is understandable because you feel that they aren't correctly evaluating what you are saying, but you need to evaluate and judge your own actions from the other persons perspective and see if your hindering/ helping the situations.
Sometimes good intentions can be viewed distustfully, particularly if it is by someone who lives their life on two planes- the internal and external. For an INFP with an inner world that has somehow been poisoned by external living circumstances (and i'm going to venture a guess and say this is really hard to do) then the are going to view anything even slightly confrontational badly.

an INFP will flower.
Or admit that you are wrong and it isn't the 'INFP' personality type that is the problem
haha.

 

[CrystalViolet]

*snort*
It cracks me up every time this thread gets resurrected. I love the replies to the OP. They are all true, and applicable.

 

[FemaleINFP]

I think there are larger questions at work here. Yes I am an INFP. The kind of behaviour you describe is NOT how I behave in the workplace. Not to generalize, but I have found some ESTJs really crazy to work with. Completely different styles and not a fit generally. As an INFP toxic environments are deadly to me and having just left a position where I had to deal with a scrambled, frazzled and incompetent ESTJ boss who could never make any kind of coherent decision and then wanted his staff to deal with all his problems and cover up his mistakes, I would say the problem certainly isn't INFPs.

I know there are workplaces where they do test and put together similiar types in teams and I've heard at least one place where a group of ESTJs all worked together very well. It seems unfortunate that this isn't used more by HR departments.

Many workplaces are structured within outdated hierarchical models of disorganization and communicative disconnects. For an INFP consistency, truth and clarity are critical. I venture to speculate that this may be part of the problem.

 

[Banana]

I relate to this post. My former boss was an ESTJ and after several months of working with him, I had had enough and resigned form a very well paying job. To be fair/clear, he was under extreme stress (as was I) and to his mind, we got along wonderfully well. He continually complimented me while taking credit for my accomplishments and failing to support our team in the most fundamental ways. No matter my daily, gently and then not so gentle reminders to keep his promises, protect his staff rather than just talk about doing so, women are not "girls", tell the truth, please, etc. What an exhausting man, and such a powerful personality. I could see his leadership potential, but his seemingly absent self awareness and lack of behavioral control, and finally, ethics, were alienating and impossible to respect.

Another INFP has taken my place and she is already commenting on the "headaches" she is experiencing. I considered staying to advocate, but after almost a year and a half, I felt I had done enough.

INFPs in any toxic environment should face this reality, assume it will eventually signficantly alter your ability to work and help others and make plans to change jobs. I usually hesitate to give directives, but for our type, a TJ approach would be useful to assume if you suspect this is what is going on.

Many charismatic, determined people reach positions of responsibility that give them power over others. Reaching that position in no way determines how it will be handled and when others are abused or neglected by these folks, it is important not to enable and go along with it in any way.

To close, I at first thought that my traditional aversion to ES types would be proven wrong by this person and heartily enjoyed some of our differences. But as always, character made all of the difference, and a self referencing ESTJ who is irresponsible but convinced himself he is responsible may not have the equipment to change, or may need another ETJ to show them who they are. I look forward to working with another ESTJ in a productive dynamic manner but know this one would be toxic to any INFP.

As to the original post, I offer this perspective. A strong J placement may not work wth an INFP, esp a strong P. The INF similarities will pale in comparison to the "fight" between a strongly expressing J and a strongly expressing P.