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  1. #21
    Senior Member Harlow_Jem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    You're... not paying attention.

    Listen. Confirmation bias is when you search only for the things that support your conclusion, and put those in higher priority than those which don't support your idea.

    You did that. Come on now. It's game over -- you can't prove conclusively that INFP is even a good match, let alone ideal. Don't talk to me about writing objectively.
    What you wrote is absolutely subjective.

    I don't understand how seeing that you make the most common logical fallacy means that I've discounted your every point.

    Jeez you're putting words in my mouth now.


    This also has nothing to do with type. You might be able to excuse employing extroversion as a cause, but... not really.

    No typology is the study of types. And here is where you're wrong. It's not subjective. The types are built off of a few perfectly distinguished elements. The structure is subjective, but those elements are not. I possess a profound understanding of those elements.
    Like found in a building, the structure requires a strong foundation.

    That's the point -- it doesn't matter what other people say. Studying any object means that it's got nothing to do with perspective.

    If you're doing it right, Neo-Jungian Typology is an objective metric, not a series of floating nebulous ideas.


    Right. It was personal.
    Which is fine, but then why do you propound this matchup as if it will work this way for any and all incarnations?
    Talk about your own experiences, not the would be INFP and ENTJ experiences.

    Since you didn't, what you said is potentially misleading.

    Not explicitly, but after hearing "The INFP" a dozen or so times, it's only natural to think that you're talking about all of them, and not just one in particular. No, actually, you can make it clear in your post (since you did say they were YOUR experiences) by mentioning the actual experiences. I saw none.
    All I saw were abstract references using "The" rather than "My".

    How hypocritical can you get?

    At the same time it's not my responsibility to protect the other forum members, it's not you're responsibility to make sure I don't.

    Get off my case -- you're the one who screwed up.
    Just confess it, correct it, and move on.

    Talk about not being open...
    Hahaha first of all you're defensive is hilarious and so irrational that I cannot continue arguing you for the sake of preserving my own sanity.

    Second of all, you're not even an INFP or an ENTJ.... why are you posting your disbelief of the dynamics that the INFP and ENTJ feels/observes between the two as if your opinion on the matter is in the slightest, truly relevant?

    "I have no need for good souls; an accomplice is what I want"--Sartre


    psychic changes are born in your heart, entertain.

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  2. #22
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ Now no one who isn't ENTJ or INFP can have a relevant opinion on this?

    Then why are you bothering to share it with a typology forum consisting of all types, and why did you bother dignifying any of these clearly irrelevant opinions with a response at all?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #23
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    She had to convince herself.
    See, I think on some level, she really knows that she's full of it, and wants to help herself. But her ego just can't let go long enough.

    Good thing none of this matters or she'd be in real trouble.
    we fukin won boys

  4. #24
    Senior Member Harlow_Jem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    ^ Now no one who isn't ENTJ or INFP can have a relevant opinion on this?

    Then why are you bothering to share it with a typology forum consisting of all types, and why did you bother dignifying any of these clearly irrelevant opinions with a response at all?
    Of course they can. I'm asking why he's so convinced he's right and constantly arguing about it if he's not either type. Discussing it and stating his opinion as an outsider a few times is one thing. Continually arguing without experience or personal insight despite what someone who actually is one of those types says is another thing. He's trying to argue that I have no basis in my argument; what kind of an idiot tries to prove someone's personal opinion wrong? This matter isn't about right or wrong; yes or no. It's about "this is how I feel about INFP males as an ENTJ female." That's it.

    "I have no need for good souls; an accomplice is what I want"--Sartre


    psychic changes are born in your heart, entertain.

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  5. #25
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    I don't think he's arguing about your personal insight regarding your own relationship experience as an ENTJ who fits well with a certain INFP; he's arguing that you are misrepresenting this experience as representative of some significant majority of possible male INFP+female ENTJ pairings.

    I've made this mistake, too, with some of my own observations about myself, by incorrectly assuming that they apply to a significant majority of people of my own type. It's not a big deal, but I've learned a lot about ways to avoid this by reading posts on this forum.

    I know you didn't explicitly say that, but the generalized manner in which you discuss these observations implies they must apply in a statistically significant number of cases, when in reality the only data you really have is that it applies to yours. You don't actually need personal experience with a majority of these cases, since that is impossible for one person anyway, but you need more than just personal anecdotal evidence to suggest that a typological correlation exists here. That is Nocap's point.

    What you mean to say is, "My INFP boyfriend is a great match for my ENTJ self", not, "the INFP male is the ideal match for the ENTJ female." There's a difference.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #26
    Member Gengar's Avatar
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    Oh dear.

    <steps in and sings an INFP peace melody>

  7. #27
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    I N V I C T U S

  8. #28
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I don't think he's arguing about your personal insight regarding your own relationship experience as an ENTJ who fits well with a certain INFP; he's arguing that you are misrepresenting this experience as representative of some significant majority of possible male INFP+female ENTJ pairings.
    But you know what? If we're not allowed to do things like that, we may as well trade in the Ni for something that actually works. (Oh wait, Ni does work.)

    Okey Dokey, now to pretend that Ni has a basis for all the massive leaps from particular to general it does, particularly on the question of type relations:

    Assuming all people do have a type, people make of their type whatever they make of it, but still it's there. The details of the interactions between two people of a given type will vary according to education, habit, baggage, culture, location and a billion other variables but... if type is real, then a foundation does (or in mismatched types, doesn't) exist for adequate, quick, deep communication.

    What could stand in the way of that foundation? Well, type theory is a moderately expressive model of cognitive goings on. It appears more or less scientifically unprovable, everyday experience not being a proof that the model is anything other than moderately descriptive. So, there could easily be some big fat psychological process sitting there, hidden away behind layers of other mumbo jumbo we use to understand ourselves, and that hidden, undescribed, non-MBTI modelled process could well be fucking with what we might call MBTI-stuff.

    In other words, MBTI is moderately descriptive, but cannot be called complete or truly deep. There could be, maybe even probably is, other stuff at work. And that may make any type claim invalid.

    Or not.

    Who knows?

    INFPs and ENTJs go well together.




    And on second thoughts:

    Hm, nothing proven except that some people, me included, appear to like to generalise. But how could Te focused Ni be wrong? Well, it's not ever going to be right unless it has experience of the world out there. And it's not ever going to have complete experience. And is it ever going to be able to prove that it has nonetheless had adequate experience?

    It might. Ni/Te (if it exists and functions the way it's described as functioning, and doesn't suffer other mysterious impediment) will learn to generlaise adequately, and be satisfied that it has done because it's not Ti. And Because it's not alone: there's Se as well. The Se person is going to cruise along soaking up new stuff even as the Ni/Te person makes conclusions.

    Put Ni/Te in a box and shut off its access to the world, and it'll be demonstratbly worng a lot!

    Ah, the joy of a judging function... you don't have to be endlessly engaged in gathering information without end. And the sadness of a judging function: if you don't endlessly gather information, you'll always be wrong.

    Why, it's almost as if there has to be a balance. Luckily, people have different focuses, different tendencies, indeed, different preferences for how to process. By jingo, I'm right because I'm right because I'm me: if there weren't other people of suitable type to balance my type, I wouldn't be able to go so far into my type, and be me: I'd have to be Everyman instead.

    So where do types come from? I wasn't born with the knowledge that someone else can balance out my extremes letting me go to my extremes. Or was I?




    This last question seems to crystalise the inadequacy of type theory. It's tendentious. It doesn't explain. And when thinking it over, one comes to the expressive limit of MBTI quite quickly and knows there must be some better, deeper explanation.

    But practically speaking, INFPs and ENTJs go well together.

    And it's kinda sad that that's the best I can say about it. I don't know why it's sad. But it is. Were I a believer, I'd say my Fi is moaning. Which seems to be true. But we know it isn't, because MBTi is just a model.

  9. #29
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    Give it a few weeks/months.
    You'll be itching for a strong he-man sooner than you think.
    Can you explain this a bit more?

  10. #30
    Senior Member whimsical's Avatar
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    how can i spot an entj?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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