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  1. #11
    Senior Member SpottingTrains's Avatar
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    I think as ENFJs we don't explicitly want to change who a person is but more along the lines of enhancing the ability we already see inside of them. To some people this can be seen as one and the same but there is a subtle difference in my eyes.

    Seeing the transformation of a person as they grow from a better understanding of whatever interests they may have is a very rewarding experience. When a person doesn't want to attain a greater sense of themselves or a certain idea I would feel almost as if they were pushing me away. Rejecting the idea of improving themselves for the complacency of keeping the status quo or whatever reasons they may have.

    I crave the intimacy of knowing that we are both searching for something more and won't be satisfied with complacency.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpottingTrains View Post
    I think as ENFJs we don't explicitly want to change who a person is but more along the lines of enhancing the ability we already see inside of them. To some people this can be seen as one and the same but there is a subtle difference in my eyes.

    Seeing the transformation of a person as they grow from a better understanding of whatever interests they may have is a very rewarding experience. When a person doesn't want to attain a greater sense of themselves or a certain idea I would feel almost as if they were pushing me away. Rejecting the idea of improving themselves for the complacency of keeping the status quo or whatever reasons they may have.

    I crave the intimacy of knowing that we are both searching for something more and won't be satisfied with complacency.
    This is very eye-opening for me, as a person who has an ENFJ big brother, an ENFJ auntie, and an ENFJ ex of four years.

    I always resisted being changed. I hate being criticized, and I hate people scrutinizing my behavior. It is very difficult for me to take. So when these people try to unlock my potential (if that's indeed what's going on), instead of feeling inspired, I feel incredibly shut down. Why not accept me as I am??? What's wrong with the status quo? Some types are less interested in self development -- at least, they don't want to share it with anyone else. Some types just want to go at their own pace and feel accepted for who they are as they are now. They will develop themselves on their own, on their own time. This is why I think ENFJs should be with other NFs ideally. Because they they can take that journey together, and hopefully it'll be a positive one.

    Truthfully, for me, when people want to help me in this way, I think, "Who are you to give me advice? Aren't you just as flawed? And yet, I accept you. Why can't you accept me??" Of course, I don't express this unless pressed hard to do so.

    My ENFJ ex would ask me how I felt. I would sometimes answer, "I don't know," because I didn't always know. I could see the disappointment in his eyes, and he'd begin the criticism. "How can you not know?" he'd ask, stressed and irritated (or so I thought).

    I feel bad for him in that situation now, trying to inspire a stubborn little ISFP who had zero desire for his help in changing/growing in the way he thought I should.

    I really appreciate hearing the motivation behind it, though. Fascinating, and also it softens my opinion on the behavior. It's not that ENFJs are cruelly NOT accepting me, it's that they really want to help. Who would've known? ;->

  3. #13
    Senior Member SpottingTrains's Avatar
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    I am glad to be of help

    Truthfully, for me, when people want to help me in this way, I think, "Who are you to give me advice? Aren't you just as flawed? And yet, I accept you. Why can't you accept me??" Of course, I don't express this unless pressed hard to do so.
    Personally, I realize that I am flawed- everyone is. This won't stop me from trying to help someone though. Imagine if no one accepted advice from others just because they had a flaw I guess this sounds pretty preachy so I will stop there with the addendum that maybe being around so many ENFJs that are attempting to 'improve' you that you may feel a bit overwhelmed by them haha.

  4. #14
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    Are they always fearful and clingy?
    No. Normal concerns and some worry at times but nothing out of the ordinary. Never fearful.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpottingTrains View Post
    I think as ENFJs we don't explicitly want to change who a person is but more along the lines of enhancing the ability we already see inside of them. To some people this can be seen as one and the same but there is a subtle difference in my eyes.

    Seeing the transformation of a person as they grow from a better understanding of whatever interests they may have is a very rewarding experience. When a person doesn't want to attain a greater sense of themselves or a certain idea I would feel almost as if they were pushing me away. Rejecting the idea of improving themselves for the complacency of keeping the status quo or whatever reasons they may have.

    I crave the intimacy of knowing that we are both searching for something more and won't be satisfied with complacency.
    Yes. They absolutely want to improve and motivate. I would suspect this goes badly in unhealthy ENFJ's. This could also appear as manipulative, pushy and selfish but it's not. The want the best. From themselves and those they love.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  5. #15
    WTF is this dude saying? A Schnitzel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    You think that about us? Really?
    That's where the fearful part comes in.

    No. Not really.
    I've had some issues with ENFJs, but that's never been part of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    sheesh humans! for realz

  6. #16
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    That was a very insightful post, malia. I'm all about self-improvement, but if someone wants me to improve in the ways that are important only to THEM, but to me are nitpicky, I balk. Because it is like they're trying to fix the things that are wrong with me. I always feel like I'm going to be with someone because I can accept the good with the bad--why are you with me if you can't accept my un-ideal traits? I don't want to feel like I'm living with Oprah. Don't "inspire" me unless I've asked you to.

    In other news, it looks like I've happened upon a type that might be more picky than I am.
    Something Witty

  7. #17
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Dear heavens. I can't stand Oprah. I'd rather roll in tree pollen.


    I've been a bit confused by the tenor of this thread. The OP was someone asking what we look for in a relationship, and it turned into a lot of negatives from those who aren't ENFJs.

    And Schnitzel, I had no idea you felt so strongly in a negative way about ENFJs. I find that a bit surprising.

    I'm not "fearful" or "clingy", and I calmly but deeply resent the implication. That's not a TYPE thing, that's a personal problem. I'd really appreciate it if it didn't get attached to us just because a few bad ones have apparently run rough shod over a bunch of you.

    Furthermore, on the subject of the original post, I want to feel profoundly connected to and understood by my partner, just as I want to be connected to and understand them. I thrive on the idea of evolution, of sharing ideas, and being personal.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  8. #18
    Senior Member SpottingTrains's Avatar
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    :Makes an extremely obtuse sound of a volcano erupting :

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Furthermore, on the subject of the original post, I want to feel profoundly connected to and understood by my partner, just as I want to be connected to and understand them. I thrive on the idea of evolution, of sharing ideas, and being personal.
    This is a verbal connection, they want you to tell them what you want, they need to know where they stand, they need a plan to keep there Fe busy and focused. They like appreciation for helping you reach that plan, there needs come last for them so they need someone whos plan includes them in it, this helps them keep them focused on themselves as well as the other person. With ENFJs its the thought that counts. Thats why they like being bought or given things, little things at random times, because it means you thought about them. Could be just coming home with a soda they like.

  10. #20
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Just going off of the few ENFJ male friends I have (who I love to death ), they don't seem fearful or clingy. They definitely want something deep with someone (god, I hate the word "deep" though, haha). Both of them are the type to not sleep with a woman unless they feel some spiritual or emotional connection (their own admission). They want it ALL in a relationship, but I think this is very much an NF feeling. I certainly relate...

    Occasionally they get in irrational moods where they think they will always be alone or whatever. As for clingy, I've never gotten that; I see them as very loyal, and maintaining relationships is a huge priority. I notice their ambitions in life have far less to do with a career (or whatever) than their personal relationships.

    Anyway, I see them as very nurturing types. They need to feel needed maybe. It doesn't mean they are dissatisfied with who you are, because they wouldn't bother if you weren't worth it, but they want to see you fulfill your potential. NFs tend to think everyone & everything could be better, because our ideals are very high. It's not critical though....it's just a motivation in life. I've never had an ENFJ push me or nitpick me, but when I set a goal they'll be the ones to say "you can do it!" instead of acting like you're unrealistic.

    I think ENFJs go well with INxPs because of that, because we need that encouragement to pursue our idealistic visions. The ENFJs are like little cheerleaders
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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