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  1. #61
    Senior Member Jonathanthegreat's Avatar
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    Thanks again. I don't want her to be her savior. I just want her to know that she deserves more than jealous fits and insulting remarks. I don't know why she stays with him when he does stuff like that. Doesn't make sense to me. Maybe there is something I am missing.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Jonathanthegreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC939 View Post
    Just curious... have you told her how you felt about this? .... Be careful if you do. If you say something like "He doesn't love you, so why are you doing this to yourself?" or -anything- that remotely resembles that... as an STP, I can tell you that I wouldn't respond well to that. Yeah, we're not very in tune with our "F" side... so we get pretty defensive when an F tries to tell us we're making a mistake on the relationship front, ESPECIALLY an F that we care about a lot romantically. Trust me. I just experienced this recently from an ENFP I care a lot about, lecturing about how I'm wasting my time with another guy. You really need to tread carefully there. We -know- your intentions are good, but it's really hard to listen to advice about our love life coming from a guy we care about. I can tell you, if she told you she cares about you... she's not bullshitting. STPs don't bullshit when it comes to romantic interests. We're either there, or we're not. We won't waste our time with someone we don't care about, or have no interest in. She's not with you for a reason she thinks is practical. I can't tell you exactly what that is, but maybe you already know, eh? Trust your intuition.
    I am very careful to never insult her boyfriend. It's bad character. I don't try and insult him, I simply state what has occurred. She HAS told me that she is "emotionally" attracted to me and has told me that I'm "good looking" etc etc. I think the practical reason here is, she has a bf, she "can't like me and him at the same time because it will change things between her and her bf"
    I feel like she is caught in a cycle of abuse with him and at the same time is acting like his care taker. Like as if he's a naughty kid with a bad temper and she's trying to "Fix" him. but yea thanks for your insight as an STP. I really appreciate it.

  3. #63
    Senior Member mwv6r's Avatar
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    I've never viewed ESTPs as being as easygoing as they're portrayed, I've always thought they were very sharp, perceptive, and dominant people.

    What I've found is that most people tend to cave into to them which creates less friction. And at this point I don't even know if it's about personality type. It seems to me that if you fall into their pack (probably stemming from tertiary Fe) you're cool and protected but if not, you're poked and prodded until some reason is found.
    Soooo. freaking. true.

    ESTPs totally have the pack leader mentality. As someone who's getting married to an ESTP I usually find this pack thing endearing and cute but do occasionally find it maddening, lol.

    (And that's very insightful to observe that the pack mentality probably arises from Fe. That's an interesting way to think about Fe, and probably true. My ESTP certainly has a strong sense of loyalty to the friends and coworkers in his pack.)

    My ESTP is laidback, but not nearly as laidback as his public personna has most people believe. (He acts like a big jokester in front of almost everyone, but he is actually keenly aware of power structures and positions himself to move quickly up the ladder at work, for example.) I definitely see a more wily side of his personality than most of his friends, family, and coworkers see. He likes to be "top dog" and there was some drama in our inner circle of friends recently because he rather shrewdly pushed out someone who he felt was "disrespecting" him, i.e., not falling into his pack.

    Another recent example of the pack thing is that we're trying to get a group of friends together to go on a weeklong cruise and we've got all the spots filled except for one person, and for someone with such a supposedly "laidback" personality type I cannot believe how picky my ESTP is being, but in retrospect I think it's because he's very careful about finding people to go who will fall into his "pack." One guy I suggested he shot down because he "doesn't have respect for him" (i.e., he's not considered worthy of the pack). Then I suggested another person we know who happens to also be an ESTP and I thought for sure he'd like him to come along because they have so much in common. But he said no again, and after some questioning I realized that my ESTP doesn't want this other ESTP asserting dominance and fighting for leadership of the pack while we're all on vacation. LOL!

    The whole thing is funny to me because I have very little interest in power and asserting dominance and it's hard for me to relate. (I realize that he considers me part of his pack -- an honorary member of course, lol -- but that doesn't really bother me because I know that on the rare occasions that he violates my values I can assert myself and get him back in line, and then go back to letting him take the lead once things settle.)

    I have to say, even though it may seem a little silly to my NF nature, it really is pretty impressive how my ESTP seems to always end up on top in social and career situations. I just try to step in and encourage some empathy and a softer approach periodically....

  4. #64
    Senior Member Jonathanthegreat's Avatar
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    I noticed that ESTP males seem to want followers, however sometimes the ESTP's aren't that great of leaders. It's like they need henchmen not friends lol.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathanthegreat View Post
    Haha I love you. I already am pursuing it I just always fear failure in the back of my mind.
    That's healthy. Pessimism is the closest thing to a sheild against misfortune.

  6. #66
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    Both are charming. Disregarding that ENFJs could be disgusted by the lack of emotion of many ESTPs while ESTPs could find ENFJ behaviour ridiculous.

  7. #67
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathanthegreat View Post
    Hi everyone, I just registered to this site and I am so happy to know that there is a community of people out here who actually appreciate the MBTI! Anyways I'd like to hear everyone's opinion about an ENFJ and an ESTP becoming lovers, like actual real love not sex. Right now myself and a female ESTP like each other and I'm just trying to decide if it's worth it in the long run. I love being around her and she is very sweet. What does everyone think?
    You seem like the kind of person who would get along with an ESTP very well. I'd say you should consider it.

  8. #68
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    I am very ENFJ. I think my last boyfriend was ESTP. All is becoming clear reading this thread. I think it can work as a match as long as both are aware of the differences and needs of the other. He would say something hurtful and not realise it. I wasn't aware he wouldn't know I'd been hurt when I only wanted to please him.

    The holiday comment above struck a chord too, choosing the people to be on the trip.

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