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  1. #11
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    I hate to bring this up, because it usually devolves into a very long discussion, but how would that differ from Fe? A person using Fe would still tend to feel the emotions of another person as their own, wouldn't they? How else would a person experience others' emotions?
    I think-just me here-that Fe is more different from Fi, than I would say N is from S.

    Fe seems to have to do with social rules and being loving becuase of the social obligations that allow us to function as a collective society. (Sorry I totally mess this up as I dont understand it well. I am Fe blind I think)

    I would be very interested to hear if primary Fe folks, "feel" the others pain on a physiological level, or if it is the disharmony of unhappiness that makes them uncomfortable.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    I think-just me here-that Fe is more different from Fi, than I would say N is from S.

    Fe seems to have to do with social rules and being loving becuase of the social obligations that allow us to function as a collective society. (Sorry I totally mess this up as I dont understand it well. I am Fe blind I think)

    I would be very interested to hear if primary Fe folks, "feel" the others pain on a physiological level, or if it is the disharmony of unhappiness that makes them uncomfortable.
    As an INFJ, Fe makes me absorb other people's emotional states to the point where I sometimes mistake their emotions for my own. It's like a sponge for other people's emotions. I think UDog has the right idea.

  3. #13
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    I think-just me here-that Fe is more different from Fi, than I would say N is from S.

    Fe seems to have to do with social rules and being loving becuase of the social obligations that allow us to function as a collective society. (Sorry I totally mess this up as I dont understand it well. I am Fe blind I think)

    I would be very interested to hear if primary Fe folks, "feel" the others pain on a physiological level, or if it is the disharmony of unhappiness that makes them uncomfortable.
    I think it's important for us to distinguish between general feeling traits. Nothing that's been said in this thread is something that I don't identify with or don't do myself.

    I've always thought that people who use Fe rigidly or clumsily aren't Fe-dominants or FJs. The ExFJs I come into contact with tend to use their emotional expressiveness to connect to people and draw them in and together. When I see Fe being used healthily and naturally it doesn't register to me as social obligations; it feels warm, welcoming, expressive, thoughtful, conscientious just to name a few. When I'm with other FJs I like I feel very strong camaraderie and comfortableness which means being yourself without judgment because we know we've built those connections. It is a little different than being with FPs in the sense that I think FJs get bitchier and start uncorking their mouths. Even last night I was out with an ISFJ coworker and I noticed when she started to loosen up, what she started talking about, how her body language changed, getting louder, relaxing more. I actually feel like once we start getting into the nitty gritty is when we start getting real with each other and I love that. It's the feeling of knowing you've established yourself enough with another person to be able to talk frankly and openly without needing the buffer of social niceties. That's what you do with someone when you interact with them on a superficial level. Thing is most interactions occur on a superficial level so maybe it seems like social obligation and nothing further if it doesn't get any deeper.

    And like IDK said, Fe very spongy and absorbent. Being able to register emotional nuance isn't particular to Fi or Fe it just depends on how much you allow yourself to be plugged in to your environment through being observant and noticing a change in someone's behavior and moods. I've seen Fe and Fi disconnect in their own ways and plug in in their own ways as well. I think that Fi and Fe focus on different components regarding emotional nuance i.e. Fe focusing on interpersonal elements (quality of relationships with others) while Fi focuses on intrapersonal elements (quality on the relationship with oneself).

    If you're asking if Fe users automatically know what someone feels without them saying a word as opposed to Fi users, I'd say that prudence has taught me to get the other person to confirm/deny what I think they're feeling before I go presuming I know what they feel. But then again it depends on how intimate I am with them. I can tell when my boss is in a sour mood after noticing key behaviors that she does when she's upset. I can tell when my family and friends are upset because I know they act. I'm focusing on when people want to hide their emotions and people tend not to hide happiness or when something pleases them. If I'm not close enough to a person to know how they feel yet I still think I'm headed in the right direction, I simply ask but before that I ask if they mind me asking because sometimes asking is intrusive and may not be something they want to talk about.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #14
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    I think-just me here-that Fe is more different from Fi, than I would say N is from S.

    Fe seems to have to do with social rules and being loving becuase of the social obligations that allow us to function as a collective society. (Sorry I totally mess this up as I dont understand it well. I am Fe blind I think)

    I would be very interested to hear if primary Fe folks, "feel" the others pain on a physiological level, or if it is the disharmony of unhappiness that makes them uncomfortable.
    Quote Originally Posted by IDK123 View Post
    As an INFJ, Fe makes me absorb other people's emotional states to the point where I sometimes mistake their emotions for my own. It's like a sponge for other people's emotions. I think UDog has the right idea.
    interesting...i just took a cognitive function test a bit ago and ne and fi were at 22 with the next highest being fe at 11 so i think i do use it quite easily but i guess i use fi to determine if it's what i want to do...meaning i would not compromise my own values or what i felt was in the best interest of my "group" just to get along with others...but if they're not at risk i use fe to create group harmony...possibly and do feel like i can absorb others emotions...but not if they contradicted my own or something...right??

    yes...lets all talk about me for a sec...okay...haha

    anyway...those posts made me wonder about that...it's confusing.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I think it's important for us to distinguish between general feeling traits. Nothing that's been said in this thread is something that I don't identify with or don't do myself.

    I've always thought that people who use Fe rigidly or clumsily aren't Fe-dominants or FJs. The ExFJs I come into contact with tend to use their emotional expressiveness to connect to people and draw them in and together. When I see Fe being used healthily and naturally it doesn't register to me as social obligations; it feels warm, welcoming, expressive, thoughtful, conscientious just to name a few. When I'm with other FJs I like I feel very strong camaraderie and comfortableness which means being yourself without judgment because we know we've built those connections. It is a little different than being with FPs in the sense that I think FJs get bitchier and start uncorking their mouths. Even last night I was out with an ISFJ coworker and I noticed when she started to loosen up, what she started talking about, how her body language changed, getting louder, relaxing more. I actually feel like once we start getting into the nitty gritty is when we start getting real with each other and I love that. It's the feeling of knowing you've established yourself enough with another person to be able to talk frankly and openly without needing the buffer of social niceties. That's what you do with someone when you interact with them on a superficial level. Thing is most interactions occur on a superficial level so maybe it seems like social obligation and nothing further if it doesn't get any deeper.

    And like IDK said, Fe very spongy and absorbent. Being able to register emotional nuance isn't particular to Fi or Fe it just depends on how much you allow yourself to be plugged in to your environment through being observant and noticing a change in someone's behavior and moods. I've seen Fe and Fi disconnect in their own ways and plug in in their own ways as well. I think that Fi and Fe focus on different components regarding emotional nuance i.e. Fe focusing on interpersonal elements (quality of relationships with others) while Fi focuses on intrapersonal elements (quality on the relationship with oneself).

    If you're asking if Fe users automatically know what someone feels without them saying a word as opposed to Fi users, I'd say that prudence has taught me to get the other person to confirm/deny what I think they're feeling before I go presuming I know what they feel. But then again it depends on how intimate I am with them. I can tell when my boss is in a sour mood after noticing key behaviors that she does when she's upset. I can tell when my family and friends are upset because I know they act. I'm focusing on when people want to hide their emotions and people tend not to hide happiness or when something pleases them. If I'm not close enough to a person to know how they feel yet I still think I'm headed in the right direction, I simply ask but before that I ask if they mind me asking because sometimes asking is intrusive and may not be something they want to talk about.
    Whoa, that was awesome. That is how my Fe seems to come out. I am a little weary about people saying its about social niceties.

  6. #16
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Fi is internal, so it draws on our experiences - both direct, indirect, and to a lesser extent theoretical when Ne comes into play. (I don't have to have experienced or seen a mood before to have an understanding of it, only theorized and contemplated it. It's a pencil sketch; not fully accurate but a good start.)

    Since it comes from within, if someone is experiencing something I am unfamiliar with, or if I'm personally invested, I can misinterpret my own personal biases onto them. It's a weakness I do my best to keep in check.

    When I pick up on information, it ranges from 'eerily accurate' to 'pretty good, but you missed a couple of things'. I've just sort of accepted and expect that I can't presume to understand everything that motivates someone; people are complex.
    ^ This

    And this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sponge View Post
    FI makes me more self-absorbed. I use NE to try and understand other people.
    Sometimes I am too absorbed in myself to even bother trying to decode others. I may perceive that they are upset or unusually happy and disregard it as I have too many other things going on in my head. I can block people out very well.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  7. #17
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    For those with primary, secondary or tertiary Fi:

    Do you think Fi allows you to have a better understand how others may be "feeling" even if they are not openly sharing that information?
    Yes I think it does.

    Does seeing another unhappy make you feel some level of discomfort-sort of a reflective unhappiness on a physiological level? Ie you mirror what you perceive their emotions to be just a little?
    Yes, I do mirror other people's emotions. Too much sometimes, I think.

    How certain are you that the things you "think" they are feeling are actually what they are feeling? Do you ever make mistakes or misunderstand? How accurate is the information that you pick up on?
    I don't think what they feel, I feel what they feel. It's pretty often very accurate but it can be wrong too at times, I guess.

    Unitl very recently I never even thought about this stuff, I would see another in what I perceived to be a state of emotional discomfort and reflexively extend an attempt to help, never even considering that my gut perception/response could be potentially inaccurate, presumptious, and intrusive. Just trying to understand this one...

    Thoughts?
    I think you should trust your gut perception/response but still keep in mind that it can be wrong at times.

  8. #18
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Fi is internal, so it draws on our experiences - both direct, indirect, and to a lesser extent theoretical when Ne comes into play. (I don't have to have experienced or seen a mood before to have an understanding of it, only theorized and contemplated it. It's a pencil sketch; not fully accurate but a good start.)

    Since it comes from within, if someone is experiencing something I am unfamiliar with, or if I'm personally invested, I can misinterpret my own personal biases onto them. It's a weakness I do my best to keep in check.

    When I pick up on information, it ranges from 'eerily accurate' to 'pretty good, but you missed a couple of things'. I've just sort of accepted and expect that I can't presume to understand everything that motivates someone; people are complex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Fi comes from within and spreads out.

    Fe starts outside and works its way in.
    i share your perspective on the ways in which Fe and Fi work. i think that what makes the Fi of nfp types so interesting to me is that Ne is such an excellent extrapolation function. it allows you to connect your own specific subjective experiences to other like-minded moments. it senses possible connections and experiments with them. aggressively creative, it's like the information itself and what it is associated with to you emotionally, in terms of your own Fi value judgments based on the attached resonances from your own subjective experiences, the way you feel when you perceive those objective relationships from your own subjective position, is already imbibed with Fi quality even when it is not literally or directly connected by rooted historical subjective experience.

    in other words, what you said. inner well of feeling-tones --> outward expanse vs outward context --> inward complexity/depth.

    regardless, nf works at doing what it does, organizing feeling-tones in experience and allowing those to supply information to the imagination to synthesize past and present experience and predict future outcomes as they relate to social existence, social games, social life, etc. intuition is a highly evolved learning feature, meta-cognition, etc. we are the masters of abstract subjectivity/ies.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Sometimes I am too absorbed in myself to even bother trying to decode others. I may perceive that they are upset or unusually happy and disregard it as I have too many other things going on in my head. I can block people out very well.
    me too, and at times, it feels great. i think this has to do with being so introverted that sometimes you just don't give a fuck about the outside world. altho i usually have a much more difficult time when i'm actually intruded upon. i usually wear an obvious mask when i am in the mood to stay inside.

  9. #19
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    I think I find I can sense how a person is inside, how they think and what concerns them, and if they're mind is really all there in the situation that's taking place. In that sense I think that's how I'd answer the question if Fi allows me to better understand how others may be feeling even if they're not directly sharing it. I think I can sometimes kind of sense what their values are. At the same time, once I sort of 'sense' these values, I may or may not agree with them. I may understand what they're feeling but not want to share in their feeling. I cannot realistically feel the same emotion they are feeling if the emotion stems from different values. So even if I see a person being unhappy, I may not really care, because even if their emotion is real to them, it's not coherent to me. But I do express that I understand what they're feeling (if indeed I do understand). DOES ANY OF THAT MAKE ANY SENSE...

    As to certainty of what I think people feel, I can never be certain. I'm sure I make mistakes, but sometimes you just find out your accuracy and improve it as time passes and you figure out patterns of how specific people act.

  10. #20
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    For me, my Ne picks up on it subconsciously (I pick on non-verbals, facial expressions, vibes, overall tone of voice- whether or not it's raised high or low, and if there is a sense of sincerity in what they are saying).

    If the person is being genuine/honest, i can usually tell.

    If they're feeling sad, insecure about something, I can tell, also.

    By the little things they say/do, I pick up on cues that say much about their background, values, etc. I can tell how they feel by just seeing things from their perspective/how they perceive others' thoughts, emotions based on that.

    In terms of the opposite sex/dating, I cannot really tell initially, if there's more or not, bc I try to keep the mood on something else..

    Besides that, sometimes, when I 'feel' a person's vibes too much, sometimes, it may drain me out, especially if their values are inconsistent with mine.. yet, I can still understand. I usually like to hang with people who are true to themselves. So if I spot that in people, the more likely I will gravitate in that direction, while understanding those who are different/opposite from me.

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