[MBTI General] Are those "emo" mostly NF?

[Quinlan]

I'm curious to know what is it about emokids that people find so offensive?

 

[BlackCat]

A mixture of unhealthy F types + getting into that group of people, then add peer pressure. You've got yourself an emo.

 

[maliafee]

Indie is an extension of alternative, but it's different. It was a burgeoning scene while alternative was becoming mainstream (I know because I was there ). In the late 90's, most Indie kids hated being grouped with emo kids and despised the idea of being emo.

 

[kyuuei]

I'm going with the stereotypical Emo kid represented perfectly in this convenient song.

Type is of no concern here. It's easy to state F types (not necessarily NFs) in this.. but I think T types are just as susceptible for entirely different reasons. Each have an unhealthy way of coping with emotion.. Different paths to the same destination.

I say unhealthy because I think anyone that clings to sadness and oppression like it's any sort of medication for life is unhealthy in their head. These types hate any sort of role model/influence/anythingorone trying to tell them how they 'should be'. They cling to the lifestyle and looks of what isn't considered the norm as a comfort, and want to think of themselves as individuals while being in a support group of sorts (Paradoxical, because if you're an individual you don't have a group, and if you're part of the group, you can't be very individualistic. Not in the extreme senses of the words). Surrounding yourself with people that are just as unhealthy as you are to validate your unhealthy behavior and actions is not a good thing either.

This is why there's a lot of negative stigma on them. They don't desire to discover they've got it just fine in life. They take comfort in pain and dislike to be lifted up away from it. Much the way someone clings to drugs, these people cling to negative emotions for support.

My answer to this thread: The Unhealthy type is the type that's most susceptible to Emo.

 

[Quinlan]

I'm going with the stereotypical Emo kid represented perfectly in this convenient song.

Type is of no concern here. It's easy to state F types (not necessarily NFs) in this.. but I think T types are just as susceptible for entirely different reasons. Each have an unhealthy way of coping with emotion.. Different paths to the same destination.

I say unhealthy because I think anyone that clings to sadness and oppression like it's any sort of medication for life is unhealthy in their head.

Sadness is beautiful, inspiring and has good reason to exist, like most emotions I (note: I'm not an Emo, just putting myself in their shoes for a sec) embrace it. Since I have discovered mbti I have come to realise just how much I experience of the world is emotional in nature, it is soothing to embrace emotions, even "negative" ones. I feel to embrace them and feel them fully is healthier than to put them in a bottle and pretend they don't exist.

These types hate any sort of role model/influence/anythingorone trying to tell them how they 'should be'.

Good for them, "shoulds" are for SJs. Why should anyone feel a desire to control them?

They cling to the lifestyle and looks of what isn't considered the norm as a comfort, and want to think of themselves as individuals while being in a support group of sorts (Paradoxical, because if you're an individual you don't have a group, and if you're part of the group, you can't be very individualistic. Not in the extreme senses of the words).

Good for them, if we were all the same and if everyone stuck to the "norm" the world would be a very boring place. Why would we be using extreme sense of words?

Surrounding yourself with people that are just as unhealthy as you are to validate your unhealthy behavior and actions is not a good thing either.

Like attracts like, there is very little anyone can do about that.

This is why there's a lot of negative stigma on them. They don't desire to discover they've got it just fine in life.

Do they think life is bad for them? I've never really talked to one.

They take comfort in pain and dislike to be lifted up away from it. Much the way someone clings to drugs, these people cling to negative emotions for support.

Like an addiction? How do you define the line between embracing and recognising "negative" emotion and an addiction? If you mean physical harm I see that as a seperate issue.

My answer to this thread: The Unhealthy type is the type that's most susceptible to Emo.

This just seems a little biased for some reason. A lot of these kids will grow up to be regular healthy people and will look back on photos and laugh at their silly haircuts, like most adults.

 

[Orangey]

I tend to think that "emo" kids catch an unfair amount of hate. I mean, they're not more obnoxious than any other kiddy subgroup, and at least they value sensitivity and expressive art creation (as opposed to drug use or other destructive behaviors). Even if it's immature and only done in the spirit of conforming to their group. They are usually well-behaved and easy to manage. Plus, I often find that those who are most vehemently "anti-emo" are the ones that I find most obnoxious (like the idiot football player in my class that shows up 1/3 of the time...and yes, he may be a stereotype, but he exists, and he is more than ready to rant and rave about how "gay" emo kids are).

I agree, though, that any self-destructive behavior is not healthy and should be discouraged. But most of these kids (at least that I have come across) don't show signs of actually wishing to harm themselves. The majority just tend to be bandwagoners.

 

[quietmusician]

I know an INTJ emo dude. Well, he's not emo now, but he was one for about 3 years or so. It was interesting to play chess with him as he wore black magic marker painted finger nails and multicolored bracelets. Now he wishes he could forget he was part of that fad.

 

[Atomic Fiend]

I knew an INTJ emo kid too! People were scared of him, but he was actually pretty cool if you took the time to talk to him. I don't think he still is.

The last emo kid I ever talked to was some SP then I graduated high school.

Not to many emos in college.

 

[quietmusician]

That's cool. I had a feeling INTJ's made up a small fraction of them. Yeah, it seems like SP's dominate the scene. Being an NF I knew who the fakers are, stop pretending you guys lol.

 

[Athenian200]

I think they're more likely to be INxPs. I suppose an INFJ can be Emo, but I don't think that's quite as likely. I tend to be more isolated and paranoid than depressed and misunderstood.

 

[kyuuei]

Sadness is beautiful, inspiring and has good reason to exist, like most emotions I (note: I'm not an Emo, just putting myself in their shoes for a sec) embrace it. Since I have discovered mbti I have come to realise just how much I experience of the world is emotional in nature, it is soothing to embrace emotions, even "negative" ones. I feel to embrace them and feel them fully is healthier than to put them in a bottle and pretend they don't exist.

Sadness is a part of life. It is not a medication, or something to cling to as if it is life. Sadness is not life. Pain is not life. They are parts of life, and without their counterparts for balance, you don't have a healthy dose. If you have too much of one thing it turns up bad. Just the same, someone who clings to sadness (the way Emo kids do) isn't in their right minds.

Good for them, "shoulds" are for SJs. Why should anyone feel a desire to control them?

Some people, like parents, are perfectly capable of saying 'should' and probably ought to have that attitude.

Good for them, if we were all the same and if everyone stuck to the "norm" the world would be a very boring place. Why would we be using extreme sense of words?

As in, no one is entirely individualistic, and no one is entirely group-oriented. People need a happy medium. The problem is, Emo people crave the extremes of both, which is why the extremes of the words are needed.

Like attracts like, there is very little anyone can do about that.

This is definitely true, but my point still stands that the like-attracts-like factor keeps them in that lifestyle much longer than they might have on their own. There's the peer pressure quality in it.

Do they think life is bad for them? I've never really talked to one.

Did you even listen to the song? Have you read any emo 'poetry' attempts, or even heard them talk?

Like an addiction? How do you define the line between embracing and recognising "negative" emotion and an addiction? If you mean physical harm I see that as a seperate issue.

I'll give you an example. Hope is someone who's crossed that line. That's like asking 'How do you know when someone's only using drugs for recreation and can quit anytime, and someone who's addicted?'

This just seems a little biased for some reason. A lot of these kids will grow up to be regular healthy people and will look back on photos and laugh at their silly haircuts, like most adults.

Yes they will. That doesn't at all mean that they were healthy minded children growing up that way. I'm not talking about kids who DRESS emo. I'm talking about kids who ARE emo. My sister likes the whole Goth scene, and I'm also partial to it. Fashion is different from emo.

I tend to think that "emo" kids catch an unfair amount of hate. I mean, they're not more obnoxious than any other kiddy subgroup, and at least they value sensitivity and expressive art creation (as opposed to drug use or other destructive behaviors). Even if it's immature and only done in the spirit of conforming to their group. They are usually well-behaved and easy to manage. Plus, I often find that those who are most vehemently "anti-emo" are the ones that I find most obnoxious (like the idiot football player in my class that shows up 1/3 of the time...and yes, he may be a stereotype, but he exists, and he is more than ready to rant and rave about how "gay" emo kids are).

I agree, though, that any self-destructive behavior is not healthy and should be discouraged. But most of these kids (at least that I have come across) don't show signs of actually wishing to harm themselves. The majority just tend to be bandwagoners.

Emo kids are difficult to manage, if you've never had the pleasure of trying to babysit one.. I'd rather deal with the Addams's kids. Yeah, most of them are bandwagoners.. but getting on the freight train to a dark tunnel dead end sets kids back some, imo. Also, I should mention many teenagery people continue that trend well into adulthood sometimes, and try to resist adult responsibilities in the process..

 

[Quinlan]

Did you even listen to the song? Have you read any emo 'poetry' attempts, or even heard them talk?

Yeah I heard the song, it's a parody right (same with Hope)? I'm not sure if parodies are going to help my understanding of the actual kids. Like I said, I've never known an Emo, just seen them round town. I'd like at least a long discussion with some of them about how they really perceive their life before I would decide that what they're doing is unhealthy.

Sadness is a part of life. It is not a medication, or something to cling to as if it is life. Sadness is not life. Pain is not life. They are parts of life, and without their counterparts for balance, you don't have a healthy dose. If you have too much of one thing it turns up bad. Just the same, someone who clings to sadness (the way Emo kids do) isn't in their right minds.

You're right, balance is good. I would hesitate to define what life is for others though.

Some people, like parents, are perfectly capable of saying 'should' and probably ought to have that attitude.

I don't think much of the anti-emo attitude comes from parents (although I bet it might enrage some uptight parents, which I suspect might be exactly why the kids do it).

As in, no one is entirely individualistic, and no one is entirely group-oriented. People need a happy medium. The problem is, Emo people crave the extremes of both, which is why the extremes of the words are needed.

I'm unaware of what they crave, they seem very group orientated to me, just not to the "norm" group, I'm ok with that.

This is definitely true, but my point still stands that the like-attracts-like factor keeps them in that lifestyle much longer than they might have on their own. There's the peer pressure quality in it.

Who am I to judge what lifestyle is right for others?

I'll give you an example. Hope is someone who's crossed that line. That's like asking 'How do you know when someone's only using drugs for recreation and can quit anytime, and someone who's addicted?'

Sometimes it is hard to recognise an addiction, people are pretty good at hiding things, actually I think it's more dangerous if they DO hide it.

Yes they will. That doesn't at all mean that they were healthy minded children growing up that way. I'm not talking about kids who DRESS emo. I'm talking about kids who ARE emo. My sister likes the whole Goth scene, and I'm also partial to it. Fashion is different from emo.

I'm fairly ignorant of scenes, that sort of thing. How do you tell Emos from fashion emos?

 

[heart]

[I feel to embrace them and feel them fully is healthier than to put them in a bottle and pretend they don't exist.

Very true, embrace sincere emotions, avoid neurosis. Supress sincere emotions, become a basketcase.

I have never seen any real live "Emos".

 

[Queen Kat]

Most emokids I know are ISFJ. They are introverted and shy, overly sensitive, they get angry whenever someone is not like them, but when you get to know them well they just turn out to be warm, caring and helpful people who are just extremely insecure.

 

[Gauche]

What makes you think NFs are emotional, depressed, and misunderstood?

I never said that dude, I said emo are emotional, depressed,..., not NFs

personally I believe there are not many NF emos, I think NFs have understanding (of emotions) that would prevent them to indulge in this; also "emo" as a stereotypical fad would not be very attractive to NF (who wants to be original, stand out of crowd).
Another thing of course is unhealthy NF, who might be emo.

Also maybe we can assume more types of emo: posers, who more or less only want to fit into group and so they assume ideology as well (but with only superficial understanding/devotion), and the true emos, who have true and deep "emo" emotions (high level of understanding/devotion), and so it's more about ideology than about peer pressure for them.

 

[kyuuei]

Yeah I heard the song, it's a parody right (same with Hope)? I'm not sure if parodies are going to help my understanding of the actual kids. Like I said, I've never known an Emo, just seen them round town. I'd like at least a long discussion with some of them about how they really perceive their life before I would decide that what they're doing is unhealthy.

They're humorous takes on something quite true. The attitudes represented there are (given that this is a humorous take on it) something you might see from a REAL emokid.

I would hesitate to define what life is for others though. Who am I to judge what lifestyle is right for others?

I'm not on some crusade to destroy all emo kids or anything here.. but they do have a negative tone on their group, and for good reason. They're extremely difficult for people outside of their group to deal with, and they put a lot of strain on the people around them.. while at the same time, priding themselves on the negative connotations they receive from it.

I wouldn't be emo, and while we all had a mutual understanding in high school, I don't talk to one emokid that I knew in high school. Nor do I have any desire to. They're pretty normal all-in-all, but they blow their sensitivity, hatred, and rebelliousness out of the water and resent you if you don't do the same.

I don't think much of the anti-emo attitude comes from parents (although I bet it might enrage some uptight parents, which I suspect might be exactly why the kids do it).

they seem very group orientated to me, just not to the "norm" group, I'm ok with that.

It's a bad way of showing rebellion, imo. My little sister does a fine job of being rebellious without crying every 5 seconds, throwing fits, kissing girls, etc.

Like I said earlier, they are attracted to their own group because they feel they're the only ones 'that understand them'. Look, if you're that interested in emo kids, go talk to them! I'll bet you're confusing goth kids for emo kids, and fashion-emos for emokids. The reality is, someone who is truly emo enjoys knowing that they're life is full of pain, and never lets anyone forget that they're always suffering. They love to play the victim card, and think that there is nothing they can do about it. The reality is, they've got it just fine and there's plenty to be done.

That mentality is annoying and disruptive to others.. If you think it's fine, that's your porogative, but I can't stand that pathetic way of thinking.

I'm fairly ignorant of scenes, that sort of thing. How do you tell Emos from fashion emos?

The post below is a good indication. They'll play on their over-sensitivity a bit, and be a bit moody and shy and write bad poetry, but when you get to talking to them they're pretty normal.

Most emokids I know are ISFJ. They are introverted and shy, overly sensitive, they get angry whenever someone is not like them, but when you get to know them well they just turn out to be warm, caring and helpful people who are just extremely insecure.

 

[Gamine]

I kind of wish we could change the emoticon sticky for this thread (the sad face) to have a low side bang over one eye. *dreams*

I think for others, and definitely myself, that part about "emos" that is offputting is that instead of living with emotions as part of a living experience, it becomes the life experience. The emphasis is on the emotions, and the things others value in life are taken through this very extreme frame of perception. This is different from people who are Fi (live through their values, that's neat) IMO, because the healthy Fi users spread that lovin to the world around them.

There are so many things to discover to in the world, and it seems like emotional hardcores experience a life of magnified emotions to escape the rest of the world.

 

[the state i am in]

eh emo is kind of a meaningless term in this stage of the game. at its best it was about as helpful and reliable a moniker as "grunge" was in the 90s. also, the emo period would have been 95 to somewhere between 99 and 01.

it started off as a branch of dc hardcore music, rites of spring, fugazi, etc. very fast, intense, naked. often kinda straight-edgy too. then came the big boom, the term stuck but its meaning mutated and the music slowed down and lost a lot of the original connection to the scene that birthed it. it soon became a meaningless buzzword like "indie." emo-wise: bright eyes is not dashboard confessional which may or may not be death cab for cutie (haven't yet decided). in that sense, emo's lasting relevance is usually a term for sj types to be dismissive about music they do not even understand or properly categorize. silly sjs, listen to them talk about music, how cuuuute.

nowadays the dying cliche is "hipster." in some instances you can go with indie fag instead. hipsters are the cultural aristocracy, the vanguard of youthful consumerism. they play (and imagine themselves to play) a large role in determining what is of lasting cultural value. using the word "emo" when talking about music is like using the word "trickle down" when talking about economics. don't do it man, just don't do it.

 

[kyuuei]

^ This is odd that you say this, as the people I was talking to the other day didn't even hear of Emo as a term until well after high school, thinking it a very new concept. I don't think it's dying at all in this sense, many people are only now discovering it.

 

[Wiley45]

Just my opinion ... I think sadness is indeed beautiful, and it's important to acknowledge it, but that is completely different from wallowing in it.