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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    Nyx, you seem like an ENFJ from what you wrote... I relate pretty much to everything you wrote. I sense that since ENFJs are are Fe-doms, some people automatically assume that we are irrational beings. However, ENFJs most likely just keep the analytical side to themselves since it seems to be made up of introverted processes (Ni and Ti) and many of them seem fairly guarded w/ their internal world. Hence, the world mostly just gets to see the bubbly and *seemingly* shallow world of FeSe. From what I noticed of other ENFJs, they may talk A LOT but they don't tend to delve much into anything personal unless you're close to them or they really like you.
    Yes! I get this all the time. I have had so many people say things like "you talk a lot and we discuss many things, but I feel like I don't know anything about you...so what's your deal?" I find it hard to answer these direct questions. I will talk in a very personal manner and honestly/frank, but it seems I never truly divulge anything about my true nature to others...this is a completely subconscious thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    You sound very ENFJ. I know what you mean by "letting" it happen to you. I do not feel good being alone but when I am extremely upset I have to run away from everyone because I can't focus on certain things (sometimes I can't stand small talk or humor when I'm going through something terrible, I can't talk about random things others want to talk about when I am really in deep with something). I am usually very quiet when I'm upset about something I can't fix. I will try to sit back & think of solutions by myself. I never want to be alone when I am content & feeling really positive emotions (though I can enjoy being alone every now & then when I get to get stuff done that I've been wanting to do for a while).
    Exactly. It's like the trauma makes you unable to be around people...not because you don't like people, but it endangers your relationships and makes interactions unbearable because of this. Once resolving the crisis (inner or outer) you then must rejoin the world because it is painful to be alone.

  2. #112
    Senior Member tibby's Avatar
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    This thread is making me very confused about my type as well. There's so much to relate to with the enfj's. I relate to a lot of what Nyx is saying here actually... I have no problem being myself for long periods of time but it makes me unhealthy after a while, the more I use my Fe the happier I also am (but can't keep it up all the time). But no matter how much I'll it, I haven't managed to get out of my head and painful self-consciousness and social awkardness with strangers, I still need a lot of spacing out and niti and.

    I don't relate completely to them, I need a lot of memyselfandI time, but I do a lot anyways. This thread has got me thinking a lot about this. What does an enfj with an enneagram 4w5 look like?

    It's like being torn to two different directions, people and my head (ideas), like I can't make peace with that. I enjoy both a lot but too much of either one is too much. But I don't see myself as an altruistic people-lover-hugger-expressive either... Hm. This post might be as good as nothing really.

    Maybe I just really love enfj's and wish I could be one.

  3. #113
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    tibby, i'm interested in what has made you change your mind about e4w5 vs e5w4. while it seems to be a toss-up, i thought you sound very 5 to me in previous discussions.

    i think it is difficult to pair down the question of enfj and infj to introverted vs extroverted. most enfjs are 2s, but there seems to be some who are 4w5s (musicians like kevin barnes of of montreal?). these can look very similar to infj 4w5s, but to me enfj is almost always marked by a more explosive personality. their Fe bandwidth is just way higher than ours as infjs. they can process more Fe information bc they feel more tightly controlling of it, more aware, they are more able to articulate themselves to a finer degree emotionally that will re-direct negative and unpleasant and potentially hostile reactions of others and be disarming, deactivate it, deflect it, etc.

    infjs spend way more time thinking about the implications, drawing them out, considering all angles, looking at a situation from every potential meaning and exploring how they relate to the overall concept of the situation. the context is infinitely redefinable. vs enfjs figuring out how to play the situation to make people happy (think barack) while still having far more flexible mental perception than say an esfj (ability to conceptualize and re-group/re-frame information).

    all nfjs needs interaction and connection, without emotional objectives and emotional purposes that are only possible through social interaction or dialogue with other human souls we wither up and drown in our own colorlessness. we need more and we need new. we need to constantly RE-CONNECT, bc we don't keep our memories and resonances forever.

    part of the confusion is also the instinctual subtypes. sx vs sp vs so in type stackings. so will seem more diffuse and need more breadth, sx will be the most intensely focused and look for uniqueness and difference at all times, sp will be the most self-sufficient and content in its own functioning and doing what it does best silently or not. sx types have the most energy and at times could seem more extroverted, more intensely need of interaction than the ohter types, but so types would look the most like extroverts on the surface.

    i don't think enfj or infj have to be more extroverted (social?) than the other, but enfjs smarts is more developed in Fe than infjs is, so it makes more sense for them to get out there and use it if they want to feel good. but both types must, or they have no purpose as Fe listeners, compassionate teachers, and emotional harmonizers.

  4. #114
    Senior Member tibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    tibby, i'm interested in what has made you change your mind about e4w5 vs e5w4. while it seems to be a toss-up, i thought you sound very 5 to me in previous discussions.
    I've given it a lot of thought and am not sure, they're pretty much balanced, but I figured with all the emotionality that's associated with 4s more or less, I was leaning towards it, although the 5 seems just as likely. Tests don't help much, it's always 5w4/4w5. Which ever it is, the wing is pretty strong either way.

    Maybe some books would be helpful in determining (and learning) more about the enneagram, internet doesn't seem too helpful.

    Thanks dude, your responses always make a lot of sense and seem übercoherent and provide me a lot to think about.

  5. #115
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibby View Post
    I've given it a lot of thought and am not sure, they're pretty much balanced, but I figured with all the emotionality that's associated with 4s more or less, I was leaning towards it, although the 5 seems just as likely. Tests don't help much, it's always 5w4/4w5. Which ever it is, the wing is pretty strong either way.
    5s are generally more avoidant of emotionality and 4s are more likely to go find it. but then there are 5s who are a little more counterphobic and go for intensification of any experience. and then there is a time right about 20 or so where the wing (at least in my experience) kicks in majorly and throws the system out of balance and a 5w4 feels more w4 than straight 5 (extending the defensive breath of one's psychology and creating more complex strategies but opening more areas of potential vulnerability, weaknesses, distintegration). when i turned 19 i started writing, started trying to understand myself, started a blog, started asking myself questions about who i was, etc. they've continued, but the 5ness is still humming quietly in the background, i still have the need to master all expressions of 4ness, i feel the need to plume all songs and pick out the ones that find something, discover something about the self, create an idea out of self-experience. bc i want to be an expert in their matters, so that i don't have to worry so much about what i am, what i can do, what i am not, etc. this is the 5 approach used even on the 4 problematic. totality in awareness and complete mastery in practice.

    the instinctual subtypes create fluctuations. sx is more intense, more heightened and more DIRECT. so is most spread out (distributed). and sp is most distant (absent?).

    i've enjoyed reading your posts and talking to you as well.

  6. #116
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    Like behaviorally? Mannerisms? How can you tell if someone is a shy ENFJ or an outgoing INFJ?
    ENFJs will prod people and sometimes criticize too for not being given credit for starting something..they want or need to be recognized for being the impetus or starter for progress helping others or on endeavors.

    INFJs may take this^ as annoying as they may feel pestered or want to be left alone or feel it's all too much and chaotic. Also the INFJ is tremendously humble and may see this ENFJ behavior as psychotic or spastic. The INFJ may respond in a very extraverted way, but it's not because they are some kind of extravert..no..it's because they can be quick and cutting if someone is viewed as way out of line...for example an attention hog or boaster.

    So there you go . A brief synopsis, short and incomplete as it is.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  7. #117
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I relate strongly and resonate with my INFJ friends. I have one male INFJ friend who is just as fierce and intense as I am that we seem like we were hatched from the same egg. I'd say he's probably MORE fiery than me. [WUT?!//Fe outburst]

    I'm in step with my INFJ father too. We say and do things that smack so much of each other I'm referred to as "Mini Me". I recall sitting in the doctor's office with my INTJ doctor and my INFJ dad and the little room was filled up with our crazy Ni conversational mess.

    Sometimes I find the E/I split in the NFJ-dom to be one of the more strange and hazy than many others in the MBTI pantheon. If you're like me, where your Ni and Fe are nearly equal, you may find the dividing line even more obscure.

    Sometimes I feel like an INFJ with the Fe volume turned up. I know I'm not an INFJ, but the identification confusion remains from the use of my processes. I have one ENFJ friend and I want to put my arm around him a lot because I see a lot of my struggles in him, a lot of the same reactions and needs.

    Tibby, my enneagram tests place me squarely between ENFJ and INFJ without fail. Listen to State. He's full of good stuff.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  8. #118
    Glycerine
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  9. #119
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    simple

    ENFJ ( wants to care about her children, all of them )

    INFJ (cares about people but its reserved and thinks most the time on their own)

  10. #120
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I don't think that exactly describes me though, and I'm definitely INFJ.

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