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Thread: ENFJ and Groups

  1. #11
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    [QUOTE=chris1207;623441] I really hate when NT's squabble about political or philosophical concepts. QUOTE]

    agree...I really like NT's one-on-one, but I'm not big on these types of discussions where everyone is trying to "one-up" each other, finding the logical cracks in other's arguments. It makes me really nervous! (I do like philosophical discussions one-on-one, love them in fact, but I tend not to be that good at political discussions because I never seem to have my facts straight...)

  2. #12
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    lot of good ideas in this thread so far.

    Ni makes us understand how things fit together, what roles are taken, etc, so it makes us wayyyy more reticent to engage certain situations than say sfjs. Fe has a lot to juggle as far as managing the emotional environment, finding an articulation that fits together with all of the disparate factors of the moment. but Ni just makes things seem obvious, redundant, absurd, shameful, embarrassing, etc. we can sense how it fits into other contexts, compare them easily. it becomes very preventative and makes us work much much harder for a seemingly unique and authentic expression.

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    I'm silent in groups until someone addresses me directly, and usually I'm comic relief. That's the only time you'll really hear me in a group situation. If a round table discussion is on, you also might hear me.

    But as to parties, I find myself engaging one person at a time. I felt way more confident in large groups/house parties with my INTJ wingman because I felt like if I was tired or needed to cool it, I had him with me.
    speaks to my experience, too. having an anchor to communicate with really helps, it keeps you engaged, participating in the conversation on the level that you naturally would follow, you don't have to lose the other layers of perception/placing that make up how you see the situation. intj makes total sense for that.

    in a more work-like setting, i might interject if i feel like a point is being missed, communication is breaking down, the conversation needs refocusing, etc.

  3. #13
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I love a party, but I also *must* have an "anchor", as State calls it. Even when I wasn't battling illness every day, I still never felt comfortable just blowing in the door alone. A room full of people I already know doesn't help - I get little fits of anxiety anyway. The sight of heads turning when I walk in makes me freak out internally.

    Plus, it helps to have someone with you who can help you get your pace. He was good for that. People liked him too, even when he didn't say much. I remember when we were kids, if I felt bad out somewhere, he'd tote me around on his back or I'd hook a finger in one of his belt loops and let him tow me through bodies (he was a big guy).

    ENFJs need "support" staff.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
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    Senior Member SpottingTrains's Avatar
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    I need to 'invest' in some better support staff. My horde of ENTJ friends are not quite doing the trick I think

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    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Support staff are important, Trains. You need to go out and invest in a few Introverted Thinkers. I used to ply mine with promises of lemon candy and obscure 80s music. *laughs*

    Coming in late to a room full of people is a trial. I navigate around in a party setting by heading for the host first, then peeling off after that to make my rounds. But when I was in school and I had to walk into a room late, sometimes I wouldn't. I would just sit by the door reading until session let out. The prospect of walking in late was too much. If I had someone with me, it would be nothing.

    Back at the garage, it didn't help that I was frequently walking through the door at the same time as the guy I was hot for. We got so many comments - "keeping him up all night again, girl??" I'd want to melt into the floor.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

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    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    i have serious trouble, at times, in groups. feeling trapped. like my sense of self is slipping away, i am becoming useless and irrelevant, losing my focus, my ambition, my sense of direction and purpose. very alienating. using Fe to communicate with an abstract group, an audience, feels so phony when i'm feeling this way. i feel incapable of extroverting.

  7. #17
    Senior Member SpottingTrains's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Support staff are important, Trains. You need to go out and invest in a few Introverted Thinkers. I used to ply mine with promises of lemon candy and obscure 80s music. *laughs*

    Coming in late to a room full of people is a trial. I navigate around in a party setting by heading for the host first, then peeling off after that to make my rounds. But when I was in school and I had to walk into a room late, sometimes I wouldn't. I would just sit by the door reading until session let out. The prospect of walking in late was too much. If I had someone with me, it would be nothing.

    Back at the garage, it didn't help that I was frequently walking through the door at the same time as the guy I was hot for. We got so many comments - "keeping him up all night again, girl??" I'd want to melt into the floor.
    Being late to anything utterly destroys me. I face the exact same dilemma if I am ever late for a class (which is hardly ever due to this fact haha) and like you said; the hilarious thing is that if I am with any of my ENTJ friends I don't even think twice about walking in with them.

    The older I get the more I realize that my mind is really bound to the rules that society projects on me.

  8. #18
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Interesting!

    What could be the problem, I wonder? Walking in alone versus walking in with a friend, I mean... I'm flummoxed by it. O.o

    Perhaps it's an ingrained fear of social rejection?

    I know I always seem to have some sort of "awful-ized" projection that I'm going to walk in and get yelled at in front of everyone (it's happened before and it was desperately mortifying), even when the likelihood of me getting yelled at it is perhaps slim.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  9. #19
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    I've been reading this thread with interest. Maybe I should offer a contrasting, possibly ESFJ perspective on Fe dom and groups.

    I enjoy both one-on-one dynamics and group dynamics in different ways. I can't really say one is better than the other for me because they do different things. I usually use the group settings as a jump off for who to get to know on a more personal basis. I'm not shy and since I went to college and entered the professional world if I sat around waiting for a posse to support me I'd still be waiting. I'm often the only black person, the only person under 35, the only person not married with kids. I can't sit around for someone similar to me to save me or help me feel comfortable in order to move. I typically don't feel inhibited making my presence known.

    Even nonprofessionally in casual groups I always have those old faithful Fe standbys: Where are you from, what do you do, etc. and I use what people say to figure out where to go from there. Maybe I don't think about it so hard so less trepidation. When groups get bigger than three people they tend to break up into little subgroups. That's natural. In my mind it depends on the purpose of the group. When I'm with my film group I want people to be engaged in group discussion and not splinter off into little groups so I do things to make sure people are engaged with the conversation. If it's a group that's meeting for a common goal or agenda it seems less of a problem.

    If I'm going to a party and I don't know anyone then yeah, I'll sit back and probably start a convo with the person in closest proximity to me or who looks just as lost as me. I guess I'm not often in situations like that because when I go to a party I usually know at least one or two people there and we stick around each other. I don't think this is an unusual way to feel when you don't know anyone and have to strike out on your own.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #20
    Senior Member SpottingTrains's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Interesting!

    What could be the problem, I wonder? Walking in alone versus walking in with a friend, I mean... I'm flummoxed by it. O.o

    Perhaps it's an ingrained fear of social rejection?

    I know I always seem to have some sort of "awful-ized" projection that I'm going to walk in and get yelled at in front of everyone (it's happened before and it was desperately mortifying), even when the likelihood of me getting yelled at it is perhaps slim.
    Well I think you are on the mark with that we are afraid of the social rejection but also it comes back to just abiding by social norms. If anyone around me does something that is outside what is deemed 'acceptable' by society then I immediately get very embarrassed/nervous for them. Which may sound weird because obviously their acts or emotions are in no way portraying anything negative about me but I still feel everyone else's reactions to that person.

    When around my ENTJ friends its almost as if they replace what I deem appropriate in society with their own societal norms. At first this was weird but overtime it now feels completely natural. Of course when I am by myself I still default back to my original 'omg-I-hope-i'm-not-late-everyone-is-going-to-stare' level of social awareness.

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