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  1. #21
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by briochick View Post
    Kissing up is also against my moral code and right now I have no desire to compliment her. Honestly I think she's kind of stupid (though that may be her insults talking). I think I let things go at first (and I've known her for almost two months now so I've got a good half a dozen times where she was mean) because I think that I must have been mistaken, that someone wouldn't *really* mean that. Then, by the time I realize that, yes, they do (say, around the beginning of last week) people already think I'm a pushover when in fact I often don't realize I've been insulted until an hour or so after the fact (erm, I'm adhd and while it obviously doesn't manifest like it did when I was a kid, it takes me a while to process social stuff, I'm like that with other reactions too, won't realize someone's flirted with me until they're already gone, but my friends assure me that it's not obvious and I just seem a little spacey/quirky).
    I would like to confront her but I also worry about being made into the bad guy.
    I was a similar way in childhood.

    Quote Originally Posted by briochick View Post
    But then, I really need to stand up for myself, don't I?
    Yeah. It might not be easy, but living with the feeling, (once you realize it), of being someone's target/toy/doormat is much worse. I don't love conflict and I am attached to being polite but I find I have no trouble at all standing up for myself since I actively started doing it.

  2. #22
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    I forgot to add, take every opportunity to call her out on stupid things said, and do it as though you are bored, if you take the indifference approach. It will drive her nuts...If you do it enough, and if you are lucky she'll lose her temper (and she will) in front of your friends and maybe go into full attack mode. Either way her true colours are shown.
    Did I sound manipulative?
    Oh, And make sure you have some one who has your back.
    Yeah, this is what I meant when I said to passive aggressively goad her into a full-fleshed expression of nastiness.
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  3. #23
    half-nut member briochick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    Yeah. It might not be easy, but living with the feeling, (once you realize it), of being someone's target/toy/doormat is much worse .
    *sigh* don't I know it.
    -Brio

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  4. #24
    / nonsequitur's Avatar
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    There are some people who do this with the sole purpose of squashing others down to make themselves feel better. In that round-about way, because you're just TAKING it, you're inflating their ego.

    I feel sorry for them. I don't cry when others insult me. My response is usually "why thank you".

    e.g. "I really liked that skirt and then I realized you were wearing it."

    My response: "Why thank you. I think I have good taste in clothes too."

    Just ignore the insensitive and completely rubbish part. They'll stop it. If they come right out and insult you, others will defend you. If they don't, you need to reconsider your friends.

  5. #25
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by briochick View Post
    *sigh* don't I know it.
    Yeah. I really think that is actually very bad for a person in the long term.

  6. #26
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    She could just as easily be ESFJ. Especially with the "subtlety."
    Yes, and you think an ESFJ approaches things any other way?

    It's not necessarily "she doesn't like you," although F people do tend to personalize things.

    It's her way of approaching life... just like you have yours. ESFJ is very much a "move against" personality in Karen Horney's philosophy. When they have issues or anxiety over something, they will NOT try to be compliant and they will NOT withdraw, they will tackle the bull by the horns. This is her way of dealing with conflict. (You probably either withdraw or get compliant, and meanwhile, your LAST mode of operation is probably "moving against.")

    What helped me was understand that this isn't something necessarily personal, this is their way of approaching the world, and what I needed to learn to do was push back if I disagreed with what they were doing or saying. They LIKE engagement, it clarifies exactly who thinks what, what's going on, and what needs to be done; they appreciate it, and tend to see compliant people or withdrawers as either cowards or lightweights who can't engage.

    Once I knew that engagement and pushbacks were okay, even if they pushed back on me again, I could let myself do it without freaking out over it.

    Anyway, much of the conflict here seemed more strategy-based, not personal dislike per se... although earlier in life people do translate anxiety/conflict into "someone likes me versus someone hates me". Later conflict just becomes something to work through together.

    Disclaimer: You're from a different culture than mine, my comments are based on my westernized culture and I don't know whether there are things in your culture that would modify my perceptions if I knew them.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  7. #27
    half-nut member briochick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, and you think an ESFJ approaches things any other way?

    It's not necessarily "she doesn't like you," although F people do tend to personalize things.

    It's her way of approaching life... just like you have yours. ESFJ is very much a "move against" personality in Karen Horney's philosophy. When they have issues or anxiety over something, they will NOT try to be compliant and they will NOT withdraw, they will tackle the bull by the horns. This is her way of dealing with conflict. (You probably either withdraw or get compliant, and meanwhile, your LAST mode of operation is probably "moving against.")

    What helped me was understand that this isn't something necessarily personal, this is their way of approaching the world, and what I needed to learn to do was push back if I disagreed with what they were doing or saying. They LIKE engagement, it clarifies exactly who thinks what, what's going on, and what needs to be done; they appreciate it, and tend to see compliant people or withdrawers as either cowards or lightweights who can't engage.

    Once I knew that engagement and pushbacks were okay, even if they pushed back on me again, I could let myself do it without freaking out over it.

    Anyway, much of the conflict here seemed more strategy-based, not personal dislike per se... although earlier in life people do translate anxiety/conflict into "someone likes me versus someone hates me". Later conflict just becomes something to work through together.

    Disclaimer: You're from a different culture than mine, my comments are based on my westernized culture and I don't know whether there are things in your culture that would modify my perceptions if I knew them.
    Thank you for pointing that out. I am from Western culture by the way, I just live in South Korea. >,< I teach English. This other lady is Canadian. So, this is a conflict of Westerners.

    nonsequiter: the advantage to being me is that during the initial insult I'm usually too confused/shocked to respond much at all so I haven't gotten upset or angry or teary or anything. I did actually say thank you to the skirt comment, lol, I didn't know what else to say.
    -Brio

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  8. #28
    it's a nuclear device antireconciler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    What helped me was understand that this isn't something necessarily personal, this is their way of approaching the world, and what I needed to learn to do was push back if I disagreed with what they were doing or saying. They LIKE engagement, it clarifies exactly who thinks what, what's going on, and what needs to be done; they appreciate it, and tend to see compliant people or withdrawers as either cowards or lightweights who can't engage.

    Once I knew that engagement and pushbacks were okay, even if they pushed back on me again, I could let myself do it without freaking out over it.
    I like this. People can feel threatened and can feel themselves insulted and rejected, in a way, by someone who fails to engage them (you think you're above me that you can ignore me like that?) which only further encourages the behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    There are some people who do this with the sole purpose of squashing others down to make themselves feel better. In that round-about way, because you're just TAKING it, you're inflating their ego.

    I feel sorry for them. I don't cry when others insult me. My response is usually "why thank you".

    e.g. "I really liked that skirt and then I realized you were wearing it."

    My response: "Why thank you. I think I have good taste in clothes too."

    Just ignore the insensitive and completely rubbish part. They'll stop it. If they come right out and insult you, others will defend you. If they don't, you need to reconsider your friends.
    I enjoy your attitude. I also agree that taking poor treatment from someone is in a strange way can be a somewhat aggressive action because it acknowledges the existence of a hierarchy between both people in which each has their place. But to acknowledge a hierarchy is also in a sense to establish the rules of a relationship as hierarchical yourself, such that IF the lower person had the opportunity, they would assert dominance over the higher. Justified they might feel, and yet it is an aggressive approach, even veiled in passivity.

    I do highly respect your approach. In effect, it commands it. Very good for you!
    ~ a n t i r e c o n c i l e r
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    What is life, lives.

  9. #29
    Senior Member MrME's Avatar
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    Not everybody is worth knowing. Period. This classmate sounds exaxctly like that kind of person. Don't strive for her approval, you're better off without it.

    Tell the teacher you refuse to be paired up with her again, and why.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    "I really liked that skirt and then I realized you were wearing it."

    I think I'd play it with innocent angel eyes and the sweetest puzzled smile and the tenderist voice, "Oh. I don't understand ... ? what do you mean?" while looking straight at her like you expect something magical and sweet to fly out of her mouth, like you could not imagine she would say something bitchy to you. And to anyone else in the room, turn to one of them and say "She just said she really liked my skirt until she realized I was wearing it! I don't know what that means, do you? What did you mean by it?"

    In other words, I'd gently torture her with it at least once every time we met, and I would tell it as one of those funny stories about how you became associated, "Tra la, this one has such a sense of humor, do you know she said to me that she really liked my skirt until she realized I was wearing it! and then just laugh and laugh, in a teasing way toward her, like "she says the weirdest things, you never know what's going to come out of that mouth."

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