User Tag List

First 234

Results 31 to 39 of 39

  1. #31
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,335

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sponge View Post
    I'm a pretty strict pacifist. There is absolutely no way I could ever kill anyone, regardless of the situation. If someone has a gun to my head, then I'll be like "Bye bye, world!" and hope for the best >_>

    Seriously though, as antireconciler said, you can practice self-defence without ever killing someone. I'm not that keen on physically attacking someone either, but I would certainly try non-lethal ways to protect others if I could, but killing is never the answer in my mind. To me, there is not a single thing in the world that could justify it, as there is always an alternative. I can't put a value on life, even those that would do loved ones harm. That's just me

    It's probably not a logical belief, but its one of the strongest ones I have. Everyone has reasons for why they do the things they do, every action and belief can be explained, and thus I would not want to hate or blame someone if they took an extreme action. It surprises me how many F types I have met (Not necessarily NF's) that really believe in punishing the 'evil' and then give a very loose definition of what 'evil' is. You don't solve anger, hate and death with more anger, hate and death.

    But, I would never put myself in a position where I would be expected to kill someone else in the first place.
    Agreed. Then again I come from the UK as well. People here generally have a different policy when reacting towards criminals in their home.

  2. #32
    it's a nuclear device antireconciler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    Intj
    Enneagram
    5w4 so
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    867

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jewelchild View Post
    If somebody is attacking you or your loved ones, as Frank mentioned, you're not going to be sitting around thinking about how to spare the attacker's life. If you tackle him, knock him out and handcuff him, sure, then you have time to think, and killing him would be unnecessary. However, most of the time in this type of situation, you have a very limited amount of time to think, and you will be operating on adrenaline. All you're going to be thinking about is getting rid of the attacker, by whatever means possible. I don't know if this is as much anger as it is just instinct to protect one's self.
    Is this true? I've never been in such a threatening situation so I couldn't say, but even on adrenaline, it's not like you become single-minded like a furious ape, but more like you have very temporarily heightened ability to process information holistically and very rapidly, including a sense of control, I should think. But then, I have training to refrain from killing in situations dealing with an assailant, so maybe that is a bias for me.

    I mean, even on adrenaline, you have comprehension of the outcomes of your actions, and even on adrenaline, humans have a very real natural inhibition toward killing which is amazingly resilient. If I had a gun, for instance, I can't imagine not shooting someone in the leg or in the shoulder first if it came to it (and then calling the police for an ambulance) before deliberately aiming for the head or vitals. There are a lot of places you can get shot and recover from with treatment, or sliced, or cudgeled, or what have you.
    ~ a n t i r e c o n c i l e r
    What is death, dies.
    What is life, lives.

  3. #33
    it's a nuclear device antireconciler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    Intj
    Enneagram
    5w4 so
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    867

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sponge View Post
    Generally, in the country I live, guns are not legal, I think there would be more of a chance of the robber having a knife than a gun, which gives you a higher chance of disarming them.
    This is a bit off-topic, but there is evidence to the contrary on this one. I'd like to know if it is true or not.
    ~ a n t i r e c o n c i l e r
    What is death, dies.
    What is life, lives.

  4. #34
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    Booo
    Posts
    3,005

    Default

    I'm not the best at taking orders anyway so when it comes to killing "doing my job" wouldn't come into the equation, I'd need to know why we're killing them before taking action. I would do what I think is right and would not blindly follow orders and that's why I've never had any intention of joining the army.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  5. #35
    Member Sponge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by antireconciler View Post
    This is a bit off-topic, but there is evidence to the contrary on this one. I'd like to know if it is true or not.
    That article was from 2001, I would have to look up statistics closer to this year to see if that were still true. In some places, gun crime is pretty bad, like certain areas in London and cities like Nottingham, where I used to live. I, nor the people I have ever met, have never suffered from gun related crime though, but obviously that doesn't mean it doesn't exist; just that I personally have never experienced it.

    Knife crime is still pretty high though I believe.

    I think adrenaline can cause you to act quickly without thinking sometimes, and if you have a lethal weapon to hand, you're obviously more likely to use it..

  6. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    669

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by antireconciler View Post
    Is this true? I've never been in such a threatening situation so I couldn't say, but even on adrenaline, it's not like you become single-minded like a furious ape, but more like you have very temporarily heightened ability to process information holistically and very rapidly, including a sense of control, I should think. But then, I have training to refrain from killing in situations dealing with an assailant, so maybe that is a bias for me.

    I mean, even on adrenaline, you have comprehension of the outcomes of your actions, and even on adrenaline, humans have a very real natural inhibition toward killing which is amazingly resilient. If I had a gun, for instance, I can't imagine not shooting someone in the leg or in the shoulder first if it came to it (and then calling the police for an ambulance) before deliberately aiming for the head or vitals. There are a lot of places you can get shot and recover from with treatment, or sliced, or cudgeled, or what have you.
    As far as I know, it's true.

    "When we are in fight/flight mode, our brain chemistry is altered. The part of the brain which controls our rational thoughts is bypassed, and we move right into "attack" or "run" mode." (Psybersquare: The Fight or Flight Response)

    "By its very nature, the fight or flight system bypasses our rational mind—where our more well thought out beliefs exist—and moves us into 'attack' mode." (http://egov.oregon.gov/DHS/mentalhea...n-response.pdf)

    I'm not sure how authoritative those sites are, as I just did a fast search, but you can look into it if you want. I think it's a pretty commonly accepted idea.

    Also, as for guns, 60 Minutes recently did a show on guns (4/12) where they had volunteers (including trained gun users) get "attacked" in a lecture room to see how they would respond. Most of them didn't respond fast enough. Some couldn't get the gun out of the holster, and I don't even think any of the people who did shoot hit the attacker. It's easy to say we'd aim to maim and not kill, but in the heat of the situation, it's probably not that easy unless you're a cop, who regularly trains for that sort of thing. Even cops on the show said they lose their response time within just a few months off the job.

  7. #37
    it's a nuclear device antireconciler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    Intj
    Enneagram
    5w4 so
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    867

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jewelchild View Post
    "When we are in fight/flight mode, our brain chemistry is altered. The part of the brain which controls our rational thoughts is bypassed, and we move right into "attack" or "run" mode." (Psybersquare: The Fight or Flight Response)

    "By its very nature, the fight or flight system bypasses our rational mind—where our more well thought out beliefs exist—and moves us into 'attack' mode." (http://egov.oregon.gov/DHS/mentalhea...n-response.pdf)

    ...
    It's easy to say we'd aim to maim and not kill, but in the heat of the situation, it's probably not that easy unless you're a cop, who regularly trains for that sort of thing. Even cops on the show said they lose their response time within just a few months off the job.
    I see. This does make a lot of sense. Thank you for your reply. Maybe then we can draw a distinction in the severity of the response. I've heard that a small level of stress can be beneficial, and help focus the mind on a task it perceives as important, but a lot of stress simply overwhelms us and is very counterproductive and fearful.

    And probably, in a life-threatening situation, even though I would very much hope to not lose my better reasoning while still gaining the benefits of fight or flight, realistically ... I don't know. I can't permit myself to say there may be a time where I won't be there for myself, but I can reasonably say I'll make mistakes and learn from them, and that that's okay. I really really want to be able to look down a gun barrel pointed right at me and with my own will (not that of some animal conditioning) take the actions I believe are right. I really really want that.
    ~ a n t i r e c o n c i l e r
    What is death, dies.
    What is life, lives.

  8. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    693

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by antireconciler View Post
    Is this true? I've never been in such a threatening situation so I couldn't say, but even on adrenaline, it's not like you become single-minded like a furious ape, but more like you have very temporarily heightened ability to process information holistically and very rapidly, including a sense of control, I should think. But then, I have training to refrain from killing in situations dealing with an assailant, so maybe that is a bias for me.

    I mean, even on adrenaline, you have comprehension of the outcomes of your actions, and even on adrenaline, humans have a very real natural inhibition toward killing which is amazingly resilient. If I had a gun, for instance, I can't imagine not shooting someone in the leg or in the shoulder first if it came to it (and then calling the police for an ambulance) before deliberately aiming for the head or vitals. There are a lot of places you can get shot and recover from with treatment, or sliced, or cudgeled, or what have you.
    I can tell you how in my situation it worked, but everyone is different. You don't completely lose your rational mind other than the fact that the only thing it is able to process is survival for you and your loved ones in that moment. Thoughts and scenarios do run through your head but at lighting speed with the most conducive to the goal of survival somehow standing out. If ,as you stated you would do, the legshot ensured your chance of not being killed I'm sure you would take it. But let me be clear, at least in my case, when your life or your loved ones lives are literally on the line the last thing you give a shit about is the recovery time of the person who put you in this position. I'm sure if you did have to kill him there would be some rough feelings to deal with afterwards, but it simply doesn't matter in the moment.

  9. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    669

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by antireconciler View Post
    I really really want to be able to look down a gun barrel pointed right at me and with my own will (not that of some animal conditioning) take the actions I believe are right. I really really want that.
    I find this desire extremely admirable, and I am so glad there are people in the world who take these things very seriously.
    I-71%, N-80%, F-74%, P-96%

Similar Threads

  1. To MBA or Not to MBA?
    By pure_mercury in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-15-2008, 01:25 PM
  2. OK to Reveal Team's Type Or Not?
    By ENFJ in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-19-2007, 06:01 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO