[ENFP] ENFPs: Hopeless Flirts?

[jenocyde]

I've been trying to understand my own objections. And I think it comes down to this. The function of flirtatious behaviour in human society is broadly the same as that of courtship behaviour in lower animals - it signals sexual availability/desirability, and helps with pair-bonding.

I guess it's the dishonesty of falsely signaling sexual availability that bothers me. If you tell someone you're taken, but you *signal* availability. You are sending out mixed messages. And we all know 90% of communication is non-verbal.

I used to be paranoid about not sending out the wrong signals and so avoided anything that might be construed as flirtatious either in dress or behaviour. That's pretty boring though and cramps one's style too severely. But INTPs are pretty unavailable people in most respects. I don't like making a display of myself for the attention of random people and I don't want to pretend to be available when I'm not. So I don't really understand that impulse. ENFPs are much happier about putting on a show - you only have to look at all the self-avatars and photos posted here, as well as the expansive and animated way that they use language/emoticons/gestures to see that.

They are just naturally "skilled" at this kind of courtship display, but the appropriateness of the context is sometimes lost on them.

What you just wrote implies that you want to transcend your species. That's fine, but it has nothing to do with T or F. You say "they" put on a display, they could say that you are repressed and refuse to accept that you are also human (an animal - no such thing as "lower" or "higher", imo). Just because we can rationalize biological impulse doesn't mean we can avoid it. We understand menstruation, but we still have to do it, whether we will it that way or not. We are animals, too.

 

[Salomé]

What you just wrote implies that you want to transcend your species.

Well, naturally. It's called a superiority complex

That's fine, but it has nothing to do with T or F. You say "they" put on a display, they could say that you are repressed and refuse to accept that you are also human (an animal - no such thing as "lower" or "higher", imo). Just because we can rationalize biological impulse doesn't mean we can avoid it. We understand menstruation, but we still have to do it, whether we will it that way or not. We are animals, too.

Not really. I think I already stated that I recognised that my old view was unbalanced. And that flirting has a function.
It's dishonesty I take issue with. Whilst realizing that most human contracts involve some sort of dishonesty - especially the ones we have with ourselves.

 

[Amargith]

Really cannot be more honest than telling you bluntly: "hey, I'm just having some fun, plz tell me to stop if you don't enjoy it, and yes, I am taken." Sorry. If that doesn't tell the other person what the deal is, what does?

 

[Salomé]

Really cannot be more honest than telling you bluntly: "hey, I'm just having some fun, plz tell me to stop if you don't enjoy it, and yes, I am taken." Sorry. If that doesn't tell the other person what the deal is, what does?

You are being very naive. It's charming, but you need to open your mind a bit.

 

[jenocyde]

Well, naturally. It's called a superiority complex

Not really. I think I already stated that I recognised that my old view was unbalanced. And that flirting has a function.
It's dishonesty I take issue with. Whilst realizing that most human contracts involve some sort of dishonesty - especially the ones we have with ourselves.

In my opinion, it is the most honest thing about us. We delude ourselves into believing that we are above animalistic behavior. We force ourselves to deny biology. But how many animals in the wild are monogamous? Flirting, social ritual - all of the basic nature of animals shine through us no matter how much we deny and pretend otherwise.

So it is the fact that you wish to transcend and yet others just accept? Is it that you perceive them to be weaker in the mind, is that what you take issue with?

 

[Lady_X]

i hate that this has turned into amargiths trial...she and her SO are fine and happy and her situation isn't the same for all enfps. i think most of us are saying that our natural way of relating to people is considered flirty but that we ourselves really are not flirting most of the time unless we are single and actually interested in someone...right?? or no??

 

[jenocyde]

i hate that this has turned into amargiths trial...she and her SO are fine and happy and her situation isn't the same for all enfps. i think most of us are saying that our natural way of relating to people is considered flirty but that we ourselves really are not flirting most of the time unless we are single and actually interested in someone...right?? or no??

+1

 

[Amargith]

Sigh, why don't I just buy a burqua and sit quietly in a corner then, honestly. Seriously, after all that, you're still gonna say its my responsibility when they misunderstand? Learn to see a game or a joke for what it is. To steal kuuyei's analogy: it's comparable to saying that the woman asked to be raped becoz of what she's wearing. I give up. Really. Misunderstand me then, see if I care. (Note, this is frustration speaking, not pointed at you specifically BM ) At least just about all the guys that I encounter and that do enjoy playing this game, seem to get it just fine and have no problem with it.


Edit: Erin, it's ok. I jumped into this myself and I did want the opportunity to clear this out. I realize that I'm not in the same 'league' as most ENFPs here and I do hope that that is clear to everyone here. Sorry if I sorta took over the thread.

 

[Amargith]

In my opinion, it is the most honest thing about us. We delude ourselves into believing that we are above animalistic behavior. We force ourselves to deny biology. But how many animals in the wild are monogamous? Flirting, social ritual - all of the basic nature of animals shine through us no matter how much we deny and pretend otherwise.

So it is the fact that you wish to transcend and yet others just accept? Is it that you perceive them to be weaker in the mind, is that what you take issue with?

+1!

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think that people in this thread are underestimating cultural differences.

 

[Lady_X]

Sigh, why don't I just buy a burqua and sit quietly in a corner then, honestly. Seriously, after all that, you're still gonna say its my responsibility when they misunderstand? Learn to see a game or a joke for what it is. To steal kuuyei's analogy: it's comparable to saying that the woman asked to be raped becoz of what she's wearing. I give up. Really. Misunderstand me then, see if I care. At least just about all the guys that I encounter and that do enjoy playing this game, seem to get it just fine and have no problem with it.


Edit: Erin, it's ok. I jumped into this myself and I did want the opportunity to clear this out. I realize that I'm not in the same 'league' as most ENFPs here and I do hope that that is clear to everyone here. Sorry if I sorta took over the thread.

no no not at all babe...you're fine. to me it seems like in a sense you and your SO have a very open sort of relationship and he wants you to be exactly you and i think that's beautiful...i truly do. i like the idea of total acceptance like that.

i was just pointing out that i didn't think you needed to defend anything and that your situation isn't exactly the same as others have mentioned. i'd like to have it defined a bit more from others perspective...the enfp way of relating is it considered flirting...in the context of this thread or not?

 

[Moiety]

You got a point there Antisocial. From my experience different cultures do have different normative ways of looking at the whole thing. I notice this with some of my Brazilian friends living here, for example. They are ten times more happy-go-lucky about the whole thing then...say...some of the English folk I've met. And they both have different ways of looking at things than what is customary here in Portugal too.

There are more factors to this than type. Far too many.

You're drawing your own conclusions based on an unfounded feeling of persecution. People have merely shared their experiences.

They have, but within a certain context.

 

[Salomé]

In my opinion, it is the most honest thing about us. We delude ourselves into believing that we are above animalistic behavior. We force ourselves to deny biology. But how many animals in the wild are monogamous? Flirting, social ritual - all of the basic nature of animals shine through us no matter how much we deny and pretend otherwise.

So it is the fact that you wish to transcend and yet others just accept? Is it that you perceive them to be weaker in the mind, is that what you take issue with?

What? How many ways to say the issue isn't about flirting per se?
Animals are honest. They go around sniffing butts. That works for them. Wouldn't really do it for me, if I'm honest.

Monogamy/fidelity is a whole 'nother can o' worms.

i hate that this has turned into amargiths trial...she and her SO are fine and happy and her situation isn't the same for all enfps. i think most of us are saying that our natural way of relating to people is considered flirty but that we ourselves really are not flirting most of the time unless we are single and actually interested in someone...right?? or no??

I don't see it that way. I keep trying to abstract the topic, others keep dragging it back to a personal level. I really don't care what Amargith and her SO get up to. It's none of my business. I'm just trying to understand this thing. And I think I do enough now to be getting bored of the topic.

 

[Amargith]

It's just a difference in communication styles BM
I actually appreciate that you didn't make it personal, and asked relevant questions, otherwise I wouldnt have replied to them. You keep things more abstract, we draw from personal experience. Just the way it goes.

And it was a two way street. It is nice to discuss this and get it out in the open and discover why people take such offense to that and why they are so confused by it. It cleared some things up for me as wel.

 

[violaine]

I don't see it that way. I keep trying to abstract the topic, others keep dragging it back to a personal level. I really don't care what Amargith and her SO get up to. It's none of my business. I'm just trying to understand this thing. And I think I do enough now to be getting bored of the topic.

+1.

None of my questions were really answered well so I tend to think the reasons for doing it are just as I thought. It was an interesting thread though.

 

[jenocyde]

What? How many ways to say the issue isn't about flirting per se?
Animals are honest. They go around sniffing butts. That works for them. Wouldn't really do it for me, if I'm honest.

Monogamy/fidelity is a whole 'nother can o' worms.

You're missing the point. Sending out signals is natural. Looking for signals that aren't there is natural. I was asking you if you have an issue with that being ingrained in us. And if you resent those who are not strong enough to overcome it.

 

[Lady_X]

i hear ya blue...it's really not that interesting. there's just been page after page of miscomunication and clarification but it just boils down to the fact that enfps have a very personal way of relating and some see it as flirty and inappropriate while in a relationship. important though i think to be made aware and attempt to make intentions clear and be respectful of other possible interpretations...so...good conversation in that sense perhaps.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

+1.

None of my questions were really answered well so I tend to think the reasons for doing it are just as I thought. It was an interesting thread though.

+2

Very few answers, many deflections.

 

[Moiety]

+1.

None of my questions were really answered well so I tend to think the reasons for doing it are just as I thought. It was an interesting thread though.

If you are trying to approach this from a perspective of conscious effort I doubt you'll get an answer that will satisfy you. Why are introverts introverted? Why can't they will themselves to spend more time with people?

IF (and this is a big if) it's type related in any way I bet it's subconscious and as such not something easily put into words anyway.

 

[Amargith]

i hear ya blue...it's really not that interesting. there's just been page after page of miscomunication and clarification but it just boils down to the fact that enfps have a very personal way of relating and some see it as flirty and inappropriate while in a relationship. important though i think to be made aware and attempt to make intentions clear and be respectful of other possible interpretations...so...good conversation in that sense perhaps.

+1

+2

Very few answers, many deflections.

There have been plenty answers, but it is possible that you didn't find them valid. That is unfortunate, but doens't mean that those answers weren't given in earnest.