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[ENFP] ENFPs: Hopeless Flirts?

Tallulah

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It's a legitimate question. If she feels that I am engaging in something with the purpose of sexually exciting or creating feelings of romantic attachment, I would have to take this seriously. Obviously.

Yeah, that's where the gray area lies--you might have a moral, black and white, policy about not flirting, but what happens when you don't really think you're flirting, but others do? That seems to be what the ENFPs are frustrated with.

I guess the whole key to the thing is a) intent and b) what's within reason? I wouldn't change my entire personality for a boyfriend. But if I was doing something hurtful without realizing, I'd examine my behavior and be considerate. But there are those that get extremely possessive in a relationship, and are constantly convinced that you're out to cheat. That's not within reason, to me. At that point, I'd just realize that our personalities were not going to mesh, and that one or both of us would constantly be miserable.
 

Synarch

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Yeah, that's where the gray area lies--you might have a moral, black and white, policy about not flirting, but what happens when you don't really think you're flirting, but others do? That seems to be what the ENFPs are frustrated with.

I guess this is where the respectful communication comes in. To a certain degree, even if I am unaware that I am flirting I must be able to recognize behaviors my partner or others find as flirting as determine how to proceed based on my consideration for these other parties. I guess I should concede that it is possible to be being "nice" or "yourself" and have this misconstrued, but I imagine this is the minority of behaviors.

I guess the whole key to the thing is a) intent and b) what's within reason? I wouldn't change my entire personality for a boyfriend. But if I was doing something hurtful without realizing, I'd examine my behavior and be considerate. But there are those that get extremely possessive in a relationship, and are constantly convinced that you're out to cheat. That's not within reason, to me. At that point, I'd just realize that our personalities were not going to mesh, and that one or both of us would constantly be miserable.

Agreed. I think this is where it is necessary to negotiate what is fair. Honest and respectful communication. The honesty part can be tough when acknowledging your own behavior.
 

Lauren Ashley

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And these people being worried (either as an ENFP, or someone in a relationship with an ENFP) I think it comes down to communication.

In my case, I've tried to communicate with the ENFPs about what exactly constitutes over-the-top flirting. After the "sweet nothings" incident, the ENFP and I had a serious talk about this. He said he was sorry, that he didn't know it would bother me so much and he would never do something like that again. Okay, so a few weeks later I'm out at dinner with a friend and I receive a text from my ISFJ friend -- "Sorry, I don't want to ruin your night or anything but I'm at the club and _____ is here taking shots and flirting with this girl at the bar." At this point I just went :rolli: because I knew this relationship was going nowhere.

The first ENFP was the one that cheated. With my best friend of 7 years.

Well, I called it. I told them I thought they were getting too close, but whatever.

I'm starting to think I'm the hopeless one. Because I'm currently interested in another super extraverted ENFP :doh: But I'll hope that the last two were wacked out and I'll get lucky this time. I've known ENFPs that realize that flirting can cause many problems and don't do it (my brother, for example).
 

Salomé

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Oh, that makes me feel bad. Is that really true?
:puppy_dog_eyes::puppy_dog_eyes::puppy_dog_eyes:

Personally? lol that's the perversion behind stereotypes Blue, I'm as calm and detached as I could possible be. I do feel the need to point out how most of this is being based on unsubstantial and unverifiable claims.
I didn't say you were emo, I said you took it personally. There's a difference.
Unsubstantial claims about what? This is just a discussion about the merits and demerits of flirting, not a thesis.

You're cool and all Blue but I just can't give every post my attention ;) I meant the tone of your subsequent posts, much like Synarch's, seemed kinda ad hominem.
Errm. No. You read one post where I revealed personal experience and concluded that it has made me bitter towards ENFPs, because that's what would have happened to you, perhaps. It did nothing of the kind. (This is why I don't reveal personal information much.)

You agreed with Synarch on the most outrageous of all his claims concerning ENFPs. But don't misinterpret me either. I called you both bitter but I'm not deeply offended or anything. But there are clearly personal vendetta undertones to some of these posts I'm thinking. If not...well you can always dismiss it as biased NF rationale ;)
That wasn't about ENFPs! That was about flirts! That's how I read it anyway...
I agree that this thread shouldn't focus exclusively on ENFPs. The worst flirts I've known have been ENTPs, actually, with the difference being that they usually know exactly what they are doing. ;) (I bet they take that as a compliment tho, unlike you lads, LOL).

Sure unhealthy ENFPs might have a problem with boundaries, but what of it?
What's your issue with discussing it then?

Admittedly, we are an odd lot. But the question remains--if your poking-at-people-with-a-stick and propensity towards innuendo-based wordplay is taken by others as flirtation, do you have a responsibility toward your significant other to stop it?
I hate to be Synarch's wingman here, but he did actually reveal both here and in another rather heart-warming post on a similar thread that he has "seen the light" regarding this issue.
 

Synarch

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In my case, I've tried communicated with the ENFPs about what exactly constitutes over-the-top flirting. After the "sweet nothings" incident, the ENFP and I had a serious talk about this. He said he was sorry, that he didn't know it would bother me so much and he would never do something like that again. Okay, so a few weeks later I'm out at dinner with a friend and I receive a text from my ISFJ friend -- "Sorry, I don't want to ruin your night or anything but I'm at the club and _____ is here taking shots and flirting with this girl at the bar." At this point I just went :rolli: because I knew this relationship was going nowhere.

The first ENFP was the one that cheated. With my best friend of 7 years.

Well, I called it. I told them I thought they were getting too close, but whatever.

I'm starting to think I'm the hopeless one. Because I'm currently interested in another super extraverted ENFP :doh: But I'll hope that the last two were wacked out and I'll get lucky this time. I've known ENFPs that realize that flirting can cause many problems and don't do it (my brother, for example).

That sucks. The discipline and forethought required can be tough. It is a slippery slope. Friendly interactions can lead to other things. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

After some problems with this, I am more careful now. More mindful and watchful of myself, in general. For me, it mostly means avoiding certain types of private interactions or keeping things more impersonal in general. It is no one's responsibility but my own.

Not to get all moralistic, but it reminds me of a story about Billy Graham I heard once. Apparently, he would never be alone with a woman other than his wife. Not even in an elevator. That's extreme, but it shows you how we must be mindful of the natural attraction men and women have for one another despite what we know to be good or best.
 

Synarch

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I hate to be Synarch's wingman here, but he did actually reveal both here and in another rather heart-warming post on a similar thread that he has "seen the light" regarding this issue.

Yes. I think this is why my stance can seem so strident is that I feel like I can understand both sides very well.

Not to get all emo, but I've struggled with a lot of things over the past year and this is but one of them.
 

Salomé

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I'm starting to think I'm the hopeless one. Because I'm currently interested in another super extraverted ENFP :doh: But I'll hope that the last two were wacked out and I'll get lucky this time.

LOL. Kryptonite. ;)
 

Moiety

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I didn't say you were emo, I said you took it personally. There's a difference.

I didn't, but I wanted to speak up.

Unsubstantial claims about what? This is just a discussion about the merits and demerits of flirting, not a thesis.

"This ENFP did this to me", "That ENFP did that to him", that kind of thing. As if a couple of examples sufficed or brought with them anything relevant to the the "ENFPs flirting with no sense of boundaries" claim.


Errm. No. You read one post where I revealed personal experience and concluded that it has made me bitter towards ENFPs, because that's what would have happened to you, perhaps. It did nothing of the kind. (This is why I don't reveal personal information much.)

That wasn't even it really. More the tone of your posts. I don't want to get petty but you "QFT"ing Synarch's post for instances. I'll concede that it could be a perception problem but bear in mind I was being kinda tongue-in-cheek myself. In a "why Synarch...Blue...you guys seem bitter!".


I agree that this thread shouldn't focus exclusively on ENFPs.

That's part of the point behind my posts. This smeels like ENFPs on trial.


What's your issue with discussing it then?

None, if done with an open mind which doesn't seem to be the case with some of the posts. I think my problem is relating it to type and trying to justify it with type inclinations in a topic called "ENFPs: Hopeless Flirts?". But I really don't care much. Just sharing my view on how the topic is progressing.
 

Lauren Ashley

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"This ENFP did this to me", "That ENFP did that to him", that kind of thing. As if a couple of examples sufficed or brought with them anything relevant to the the "ENFPs flirting with no sense of boundaries" claim.

I made a few of these comments because I felt it was relevant to the discussion. To show that sometimes it's not just "harmless flirting," as some ENFPs believe.

But really, I want to understand why some ENFPs flirt, even when they know they might not be able to control themselves if it goes too far. No ENFP has really answered that yet. From discussions with ENFP friends and family I glean that it is because they have an excruciating need to be liked and feel that they are affecting others. But I would like to hear other ENFPs' thoughts on this.
 

kyuuei

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But really, I want to understand why some ENFPs flirt, even when they know they might not be able to control themselves if it goes too far. No ENFP has really answered that yet.

I think it's been stated many times the answer to that question: ENFPs don't perceive flirting the same way as most people would.

In the dictionary sense of the term, I would not flirt with anyone while in a relationship. I would not dare pretend to have any aim at looking outside of my relationship.

And yet, I can still be known as a flirt. This is either from girls that do not do things the same way I do, or from men that think I am flirting when this is really just friendly banter. People are seeing and hearing what they want, instead of taking into consideration who is doing the talking.

If I flirted with an 80 year old man, I doubt you'd think I was truly attempting to tactfully ask for sex or a date. Yet, if we were dating, and I said that same joke to handsome young man, you'd be offended. It's perception, and ENFPs are known for having a wider emotional range than other types.
 

Uytuun

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If I'm secure in the special connection I have with the SO, I wouldn't mind too much. There are so many interesting people in the world, self-censoring when you're in a relationship seems to be a waste...
 

Amargith

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I made a few of these comments because I felt it was relevant to the discussion. To show that sometimes it's not just "harmless flirting," as some ENFPs believe.

But really, I want to understand why some ENFPs flirt, even when they know they might not be able to control themselves if it goes too far. No ENFP has really answered that yet. From discussions with ENFP friends and family I glean that it is because they have an excruciating need to be liked and feel that they are affecting others. But I would like to hear other ENFPs' thoughts on this.

Actually, Udog said it in the beginning of this thread:

This sums up the thread.

Flirtation adds a color, fun, and edge to personal interaction, and the world would be less interesting without it. Light flirtation doesn't mean sexual interest by any means, but it does introduce a sexual element. When you add that sexual element, no matter how slight, it opens the door up to confusion.

As a fellow _NFP, I understand the flirtation for what it is - a way to intensify personal interaction. I can see how it can create confusion with some people. (Urban Dictionary: enfp).

It's a fair price to pay, but it's nonetheless a price to pay.
 

Salomé

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If I'm secure in the special connection I have with the SO, I wouldn't mind too much. There are so many interesting people in the world, self-censoring when you're in a relationship seems to be a waste...

What is it that makes a relationship secure if not some expectation of fidelity and loyalty? Or are you talking about open relationships? I've never seen the point of those.

Self-censoring isn't the same as self-restraint. That latter is a mark of love for your SO and respect for your relationship.
 

Amargith

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If I'm secure in the special connection I have with the SO, I wouldn't mind too much. There are so many interesting people in the world, self-censoring when you're in a relationship seems to be a waste...

+1

A relationship with someone who constantly expects you to be only focussed on them is sufficating to say the least. Yes, they should come first, but no, I will not limit myself to only our little cocoon, nor do I expect them to do so. That just testifies of insecurity, jealousy, self-doubt and selfishness imo. People aren't possessions, and if you can recognize the good influence your partner has on you, then why would you begrudge the world that same beneficial influence? And if you do love them the way you claim to, and your bond is that solid, then trust should not be an issue.
 

Synarch

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+1

A relationship with someone who constantly expects you to be only focussed on them is sufficating to say the least. Yes, they should come first, but no, I will not limit myself to only our little cocoon, nor do I expect them to do so. That just testifies of insecurity, jealousy, self-doubt and selfishness imo. People aren't possessions, and if you can recognize the good influence your partner has on you, then why would you begrudge the world that same beneficial influence? And if you do love them the way you claim to, and your bond is that solid, then trust should not be an issue.

Be honest. You want your cake and eat it, too. That's all I want to hear. It's not about depriving the world of your "beneficial influence" to not flirt. Give me a break.

I don't really hear you ever talking about things from the point of view of what is best for your partner. Only what serves your own interests and inclination.
 

Amargith

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LOL, if that's what you wanna hear, sure. I enjoy it, so why not enjoy it. What you don't seem to understand is that my SO actually sides with me and not with you on this issue. He doesn't see the need to lock me up and throw away the key unlike some, coz that would change who I am, and who he fell in love with.

I've never cheated in my life. And I'm not planning on it. He knows that, and that's all he needs. And he in return gets a gf who doesn't constantly page him when he's away on business, checks his emails and screams at him when he doesn't check in with her every 5 minutes, but who is very happy to see him when he returns and does make him the center of her universe at that point. I'm not the only one with the need for personal space, nor the only one who appreciates it. It's the reason we survived as long as we have as a couple.
 

Wild horses

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Cakes are kind of gorgeous though...

picture-bridal-cakes-2.jpg
 

d@v3

Perfect Gentleman! =D
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Wild, your not helping! :doh: Your only distracting!
 
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