[ENFP] ENFPs: Hopeless Flirts?

[kyuuei]

I've dated flirty ENFPs and no, I wasn't okay with it as I said earlier. I'm fine with someone being friendly; I have lots of friends and I'm always willing to talk with someone. But such things as whispering sexually in someone else's ear while your SO is in the same vicinity, for example, I can't tolerate. I think it's disrespectful to your SO and the relationship you have.

I think this is where we draw the line. I'm with Biaxident on this.. if it's an 80 year old man that I'm visiting at the retirement home (I do do this often), my comments might be way flirty in jokingness than, say, with someone else my age. The more obvious the joke will be, the more I run with it. If there's someone potentially sensitive to that sort of flirty behavior, I'm very quick to adjust.

We're extroverts.. and I never forget that I cater to people's needs moreso than my own. I would never flirt with the intent on getting into someone's pants, to seriously compliment them, etc. I'm not good at all with making the first moves on anything relationship-oriented. So if someone thinks I'm flirting with them, they're obviously mistaken.

Flirting is tacitly sexual or romantic. Check the dictionary. I am not talking about being friendly, cheerful, or curious.

Whispering in someone's ear? Jesus.

Talking about flirting. Flirting is at least romantic or sexual in its approach.

This is what I think as well. I don't think you're..well..ENTIRELY.. trolling. You're making good points arguing the other side. Flirting can be hurtful, but taking Amargith's point..

How do you justify it when you insult someone as a joke, coz that's your type of bantering, and they take it seriously? And why do you feel the need to insult them in the first place? It's pretty much the same thing imo.

It's the exact same thing. What one person perceives as their way of interacting can always be mistaken as something else. And I'm sure you have to adjust your ways depending on the person.. more sensitive people.. you may have to be a bit reserved around, say, Beyondaurora (sorry hun first name in my head), than you would be around Edgar of TucsonENTP.

On the surface they probably see it as "connecting with others" or "being friendly", but when you scratch the surface it's usually a need to be liked above all else. This has to come from the outside as they cannot get it from within because that would require introspection and strength.

I do think this statement is a bit messed up.. I don't ever ever feel the need to flirt with anyone to fulfill some childish inner desire. (Using flirting as the dictionary usage, not what people here are calling flirting). I just don't do it. I say I flirt, because commonly I am mistaken as doing such. Anything that would be preceived as me making any sort of flirting gestures or first moves are mistaken, I'm terrible at these things.

No, I don't mean friendly, I know some people get that twisted. I'm talking about flirting. And that it's often hurtful to play with people's feelings.

^ Entirely agreed. At the same time.. Most of the time that I've been taken as a flirt, I am not flirting. I'm not a very subtle person. If I want sex, I ask for it (in a shy way, but I do. Or rather.. I don't make first moves. If someone makes a move, I'll receive it warmly and openly. There's usually no mistaking.) and if I want a date or attention, I ask for that as well.

People hear what they want to hear though.. It's not been the first time that I've paid attention to a guy, and they've seen and analyzed my actions as more than what they are, and the saying goes "people hear what they want to hear" and before you know it, I'm apologizing and doing damage control.

I can't change who I am for every lonely person. But I do ensure my SO's never feel out of place or uncomfortable.. and I think I'm balanced enough that aside these occasional things, I don't hurt people with my actions and words.

 

[Delilah]

Reviewing your past questions I don't know how I could have gotten the idea that you were someone unworthy of seriousness. It is a mystery. I will have to think on it.

Well, in your own words.....

I give each participant what they seek. Reasonable people get reason. Argumentative people get argument. Considerate people get consideration. Lame people get lameness. Next time you get nothing because you are nothing, by virtue of the lack of content you create.

See how that works?

Sorry I had to point out the obvious to you, but your input in this thread is getting exactly the response it deserves from me.

You gonna be okay? Need a tissue?

 

[Synarch]

It's a bit harsh, yes. However, it could be true to a degree. And it could also be true that the SO on the sidelines is insecure and needs his/her partners attentions solely on them. Especially if it was the flirting that attracted him/her to the SO in the first place. And it could be said that the SO feels empty and sought out that flirtatious person to make him/her feel alive and wanted. We all have our issues to some degree. No one is perfect, not even lovely dear Synarch. But we just learn from life...

I think there may be something to the bolded part. However, we can't blame people for liking someone if they flirt with them and thinking that it meant something special.

 

[kyuuei]

^ Maybe this is where my lines are blurring entirely. People don't ever get with me because I paid special attention to them, because I made myself prettier around them, etc. The best dates and boyfriends I've had come from long friendships from people who know me well.

At the same time, people insecure with themselves don't have any place talking to me in a relationship level of conversation. I'm not insecure in myself in these ways, and I cannot constantly devote all my attention to one thing. It wears me out and drains me. I don't like having attention focused on me all the time, and I cannot return it back. Anyone who is that needy needs to look elsewhere. It's not a bad thing, but they need someone that can fulfill something I cannot.

To use an IRL example.. an ex-boyfriend of mine wanted me to be around him 24/7, go everywhere with me, hang out with me all the time. When I wanted to go to family-only events, he cried as to why he couldn't go. We hadn't been dating long enough for me to feel him part of the family, or part of my closer ring of friends and family, and I couldn't explain that to him. He needed to feel special and like my absolute partner right from the start. I work a lot slower than this, I don't instantly fall in love with anyone. I was a shitty girlfriend for him, and he still can't figure out why.. even if I knew I was a crappy girlfriend.

 

[professor goodstain]

Upon further developments in this thread stains NE is fried and he is now temporarily out of service. But he did leave this message "ENFPs FI feeds their NE externaly by the use of flirting. This is known as the new concept of (tickle). The problem is that as individuals some don't know where the edge of the cliff is. This also could be due to SI. However, NT may never understand the symbol (tickle).


YO! Costrin?

Ok. i'm back. Sorry. Could ENFP take their flirting too far depending on how mature their SI is? Reading the different levels of flirting by ENFP could be in how developed their individual SI is to recollect the level of jealousy found in their counterparts during givin situations in their past.

 

[jenocyde]

I think there may be something to the bolded part. However, we can't blame people for liking someone if they flirt with them and thinking that it meant something special.

You're absolutely correct. But on the same level, you can't blame someone for not knowing that the other person may take it further than intended.

It's a fine line on both sides. Like I said, some people perceive things that may not be there, and some others may put more out than they realize. I don't believe either party is inherently wrong. I think it's just better to be with someone who understands and appreciates your personality, no matter which side of the line you fall on.

 

[Salomé]

I'm being provocative

No shit!

On the surface they probably see it as "connecting with others" or "being friendly", but when you scratch the surface it's usually a need to be liked above all else. This has to come from the outside as they cannot get it from within because that would require introspection and strength.

QFT.

This is the interesting thing, there seems to be a resistance to acknowledging that it can be really hurtful. For the partner watching on and for the target of the flirting.

On some level, with some people, it's just cruel beyond a certain point.

It surprises me when some ENFPs don't seem to grasp that? Though perhaps that's a type bias, expecting that NF automatically means caring etc. Idk, it just strikes me as odd. If it's upsetting your partner why not try and work on it... makes me think that attention from others is more important than anything?

+1

How do you justify it when you insult someone as a joke, coz that's your type of bantering, and they take it seriously? And why do you feel the need to insult them in the first place? It's pretty much the same thing imo.

C'mon! There's a big difference between inadvertently wounding some overly sensitive type you are barely acquainted with and making someone you are in a committed relationship with insecure and unhappy. Or leading someone to develop feelings which you don't genuinely reciprocate. You really can't see that? I thought you guys understood human nature?

Well, what else could he say?

* "Oh, just making myself feel good by getting her excited."
* "Oh, just setting up some options in case I need to get some strange on the sly."

LOL.

I have with an entire group of guys an entire evening when going out, and he enjoyed being at the sidelines and watching it. He absolutely loved the fact that it was HIM I went home with at the end of the evening.

Yeah, real deep connections happening there.
Ego trip on both sides. Some guys like watching their Mrs get gang-banged too. It's a crazy fucked-up world...

 

[kyuuei]

^ I don't know the SI NE crap. But to try and answer your question, Professor, I don't believe I've ever intentionally taken a joke too far. If I have any interest in people, I try to avoid things I am normally open about with people I have no interest in.

I'm an extremely private person. Although I talk about my private life in the past to strangers on here, it's more because most of ya'll ARE strangers and I don't mind sharing for informational reasons.. to relate to a point, etc. I don't like talking about, expressing, or interacting my public and private lives, they're very separate. So I tend to avoid eye contact, sexual jokes, references to my or his body, etc, at least until the first move has been established from the other end.

 

[Synarch]

Ok. i'm back. Sorry. Could ENFP take their flirting too far depending on how mature their SI is? Reading the different levels of flirting by ENFP could be in how developed their individual SI is to recollect the level of jealousy found in their counterparts during givin situations in their past.

Your comment leads down an interesting path. If we could compose a survey of ENFP couples (or any couple really) and their mates, we could ask such questions as:

To mate: Do you think your mate flirts? Yes / No Do they do it in your presence? How does it make you feel? 1-5 spectrum of answers.

To flirting party you ask the flip side:

Do you flirt? Yes / No How do you think it makes your mate feel? 1-5 spectrum of answers.

Then we just pair up the responses. Would you ENFP's be open to such a scientific experiment?

 

[kyuuei]

^ If I had an SO, I'd be very open to it.

Let's be honest on it though. With everyone's definitions of flirting being used all over the place.. we ought to stick with the dictionary one. Does your partner try to tactfully be romantic or sexual with other people? Do they do this infront of you?

 

[Synarch]

Yeah, real deep connections happening there.
Ego trip on both sides. Some guys like watching their Mrs get gang-banged too. It's a crazy fucked-up world...

I like it when we agree because I know you would never agree with me just to make me like you. See how that works, ENFP's? (teasing)

 

[sculpting]

On the surface they probably see it as "connecting with others" or "being friendly", but when you scratch the surface it's usually a need to be liked above all else. This has to come from the outside as they cannot get it from within because that would require introspection and strength.

This is very interesting.

Ne sits like a little spider in the middle of a big web. It clicks the strings of the web, sends a vibration down the strings to bounce of other people then waits for the return vibration. Otherwise how does it know it is still there? If there is no return of the signal, does it exist? It is so outward focused that it can have problems defining itself if others are not there to help define it.

This would move beyound just flirting though into all levels of communication.

However, ENFPs are not the only Nes.

 

[Synarch]

This is very interesting.

Ne sits like a little spider in the middle of a big web. It clicks the strings of the web, sends a vibration down the strings to bounce of other people then waits for the return vibration. Otherwise how does it know it is still there? If there is no return of the signal, does it exist? It is so outward focused that it can have problems defining itself if others are not there to help define it.

This would move beyound just flirting though into all levels of communication.

However, ENFPs are not the only Nes.

Explain more about how you see Ne function this way.

 

[Salomé]

I like it when we agree because I know you would never agree with me just to make me like you. See how that works, ENFP's? (teasing)

Jeez! I really suck at flirting. I was trying to get into your pants!

 

[seeker22]

It's a fine line on both sides. some people perceive things that may not be there, and some others may put more out than they realize.

Ding Ding Ding!

I should have named the thread:
"ENFPs... Hopeless Flirts - Or Just Misunderstood?"

 

[kyuuei]

I like it when we agree because I know you would never agree with me just to make me like you. See how that works, ENFP's? (teasing)

:\ I'm going to have to agree with Blue on that matter as well now that I've caught up to everything. This thread is moving at an alarming rate.

I don't like attention on me.. if I'm the center of attention around a group of men, I get uncomfortable. I don't try to draw attention to myself, and if attention moves my way, I guide the conversation the other direction.

If I had a boyfriend, and guys were bombarding me with anything more than impersonal questions that were at all flirting in nature.. half-jokes and whatnot.. I'd expect something to be said, if only because if I say something, I'm just interpreting his joke badly, even if we both know it's a half-joke. If my boyfriend says something, it doesn't matter if he's interpreting it wrong or not. There's my comfort at stake.

 

[Salomé]

Ne sits like a little spider in the middle of a big web. It clicks the strings of the web, sends a vibration down the strings to bounce of other people then waits for the return vibration. Otherwise how does it know it is still there? If there is no return of the signal, does it exist? It is so outward focused that it can have problems defining itself if others are not there to help define it.

Ahah! Kinda like if a bear shit in the woods but didn't have any toilet paper type deal?

j/k

 

[iwakar]

Here's what I know: 99.99% of life is "filling a need."

I breathe to fill my need for oxygen.
I write to fill my need for emotional venting.
I work to fill my need to earn money and maintain my physical existence.

So if I were to flirt, it would be to fill a need. The question is, what need does flirting fill? Pretending it's pointless and ineffective insults intelligences everywhere.

 

[Synarch]

Wait a minute. How did happy puppy flip flop to INTP? When did that happen, hp?

 

[Amargith]

No shit!


C'mon! There's a big difference between inadvertently wounding some overly sensitive type you are barely acquainted with and making someone you are in a committed relationship with insecure and unhappy. Or leading someone to develop feelings which you don't genuinely reciprocate. You really can't see that? I thought you guys understood human nature?

Yeah, real deep connections happening there.
Ego trip on both sides. Some guys like watching their Mrs get gang-banged too. It's a crazy fucked-up world...

No there's not in my opinion. You just get your feelings hurt in a different way aka you're sensitive to different things. And once again, I don't make my partner unhappy. They come first, period. And I make it quite clear that I am taken when building a bond with someone, so they do not mistake my affections.

Granted, this was not a time where I was bonding with someone. I was going out, dancing and having some fun. Those guys were there for the same thing. So we had ourselves a little game. There are different kinds of flirting, and this was purely for sport. Everyone enjoyed themselves, so I don't see the problem.