[ENFP] ENFPs: Hopeless Flirts?

[Lauren Ashley]

I've dated ENFPs in the past and this is one of the biggest issues that we would always run into (in addition to flakiness). They would flirt with other women and act like it was no big deal. How is it not a big deal that you're touching, dancing with, and chatting up another woman as if you're single? It's disrespectful. And once it did go so far that the ENFP cheated, and that ended our relationship. I'm not going to keep my partner on a leash to make sure they behave appropriately.

 

[Salomé]

I have to admit, I don't really understand this. Jokey teasing is one thing. But sexual teasing is really just foreplay by another name. Why would you want foreplay with no after play? And if you're good (convincing) at it you're just going to frustrate the other party, which is rather cruel, IMO.

I'm inclined to believe that it's not about connection at all. It's just an ego trip.

 

[Amargith]

I dunno, to me it's just my type of bantering. Just like some NTs like to insult each other, which other types don't like either btw, I just enjoy sexual innuendo to test how quick-witted the other person is, and yes, what kind of person they are. And it has the pleasant side-effect of creating a warmth and comfort that makes bonding more easy. And depending on the person and the click we have, it can go pretty far (at least in my case). I do agree that you should make the situation clear up front (hey, im not looking for a bf, i'm taken, i'm just joking about, etc), but then I find that there's just as many who use insults to banter that don't give the other party this curtesy.

I know that some people aren't into my kind of banter, and when indicated it is not appreciated, I will stop, as I don't wanna force anyone into anything they feel uncomfortable with. But I don't see the big deal. Why is it that our way of being, our humor is supposedly more hurtful than say, insulting people? This is not the first thread about this topic, and it seems to once more not resolve anything in terms of creating understanding or coming to a solution.

anyways, just my two cents
Amargith

 

[Salomé]

All due respect, that's a cop out.
If you don't have an SO, it's one thing. I still think it's weird, because it's lying about/cheapening intimacy and that's not something to cheapen, IMO. But, each to their own - it's a case of caveat emptor.
If you do have an SO, it's hurtful, not to mention incredibley disrespectful.

/2c

EDIT. The thread was created by an ENFP looking for info on how his behaviour might be affecting others, not as an opportunity to knock ENFPs. As such, it is serving its purpose. Maybe you are taking it too personally?

 

[MacGuffin]

Will you NTs quit ruining the cool NFs???

 

[Salomé]

^Keep forgetting, that job's taken.

 

[MacGuffin]

Damn straight!

 

[Lauren Ashley]

All due respect, that's a cop out.
If you don't have an SO, it's one thing. I still think it's weird, because it's lying about/cheapening intimacy and that's not something to cheapen, IMO. But, each to their own - it's a case of caveat emptor.
If you do have an SO, it's hurtful, not to mention incredibley disrespectful.

This.

Not trying to put down ENFPs because they are one of my favorite types and I adore them. But this is a drawback that I've noticed, especially with immature ENFPs.

 

[Amargith]

Blue, i realise it was created by an ENFP, but I think it was meant to seek understanding. Anycase, you might not agree with it, but it really is between me and my SO. He knows this about me, and has no problem with it, so I don't see why it should be a problem at all. He's fortunately not the jealous type. If I knew I was hurting him and making him unhappy, I wouldn't do this. But that's one of the reasons why I love him: he accepts and loves me for being who I am, including this part of me.

I have a tendency to relate to things personally so it might seem like I'm taking it personal, but my point is: if all parties involved are informed and ok with it..then who cares what they do? Sure, you may not agree with it, or would never want to get involved yourself, but nobody's asking you to.

 

[Moiety]

No wonder you're so confused. You can't even tell when someone is jerking you off.

This is dangerous I think. Once you realize you may be sending a signal it kind of falls back to you to reconsider how you choose to send that signal and how the respondee may take it. It may be all about intentions and the realization you are acting this way.

Agreed. I don't think I share the seemingly dismissive stance of some other ENFPs on the thread, in regards to this. Sure, I'm a free spirit and like to be loved/liked for who I am, but you gotta be smart about these things - every action has a consequence.

I think I might have a way of approaching people in general, that is less likely to come across as classically flirty, when compared to other ENFPs, if that makes any sense. Also, I generally talk in the same manner with women as I do with men. I will say though, that I do like to give others attention. And this might be true for most other ENFPs, and also part of the problem. We like to keep everyone happy, and that might be misinterpreted, I guess.


But I usually know exactly how I come across and I'm careful not to fuck with people's feelings (both the old and the new people's). I don't usually do sexual innuendo because it can be misinterpreted . I think I'm a natural conversationalist but not a natural flirt. So I have little patience for idle and shallow chit-chat anyway. Unless I already like/know the other person.

All due respect, that's a cop out.
If you don't have an SO, it's one thing. I still think it's weird, because it's lying about/cheapening intimacy and that's not something to cheapen, IMO. But, each to their own - it's a case of caveat emptor.
If you do have an SO, it's hurtful, not to mention incredibley disrespectful.

I do see where you are coming from Blue and I do agree somewhat. Cheapening intimacy...yeah...that's a good way to put it.

 

[Salomé]

Blue, i realise it was created by an ENFP, but I think it was meant to seek understanding. Anycase, you might not agree with it, but it really is between me and my SO. He knows this about me, and has no problem with it, so I don't see why it should be a problem at all. He's fortunately not the jealous type. If I knew I was hurting him and making him unhappy, I wouldn't do this. But that's one of the reasons why I love him: he accepts and loves me for being who I am, including this part of me.

Yeah, like I said. Kinda taking it personally there.

In any even, what the OP was asking about was more the jokey flirty type of behaviour:

As an ENFP, I am often times accused of being a hopeless flirt... In my mind, I'm simply playfully engaging others and giving them attention. My ex gf (SJ) and I would get in huge fights over this for the five years we were together. (And btw no I never cheated) She said I had no "emotional boundaries." What really sucks is when you think you are just being fun and nice, and the other person mistakes it for genuine romantic interest. Others?

Emotional boundaries have been an issue for the ENFPs I've known. I think having this pointed out might be helpful? I also strongly believe that we are frequently not the best judge of our own motivations. It's too easy to deceive ourselves so that our self-image and behaviour have some kind of congruence.

To assume one can engage in hardcore flirting without any kind of consequence is rather naive at best.

What I don't understand is that the whole premise of the kind of flirting you are talking about is built on a lie, it's a promise without payment. Whereas true connection/bonding is built on authenticity, mutual disclosure and trust. I don't see how one leads to the other. Perhaps you can explain that?

 

[Moiety]

What I don't understand is that the whole premise of the kind of flirting you are talking about is built on a lie, it's a promise without payment. Whereas true connection/bonding is built on authenticity, mutual disclosure and trust. I don't see how one leads to the other. Perhaps you can explain that?

That's kinda typical. I think the issue is that we ENFPs tend to generally be nice to others but we just live in a very cynical society where no one expects attention and openness, just like that.

 

[Lady_X]

This thread is horrible now, just horrible!

I blame the non-ENFPs like Synarch and sanveane.

To the ENFPs:

that's what i like to see...backatcha

 

[Rachelinpa]

As an ENFP, I am often times accused of being a hopeless flirt... In my mind, I'm simply playfully engaging others and giving them attention. My ex gf (SJ) and I would get in huge fights over this for the five years we were together. (And btw no I never cheated) She said I had no "emotional boundaries." What really sucks is when you think you are just being fun and nice, and the other person mistakes it for genuine romantic interest. Others?

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with flirting. But, if someone I was dating was bothered by my behavior to the point of being unhappy in the relationship, then that's something to consider. How much are you willing to accommodate or adjust for your significant other.

 

[Amargith]

Yeah, like I said. Kinda taking it personally there.

In any even, what the OP was asking about was more the jokey flirty type of behaviour:


Emotional boundaries have been an issue for the ENFPs I've known. I think having this pointed out might be helpful? I also strongly believe that we are frequently not the best judge of our own motivations. It's too easy to deceive ourselves so that our self-image and behaviour have some kind of congruence.

To assume one can engage in hardcore flirting without any kind of consequence is rather naive at best.

What I don't understand is that the whole premise of the kind of flirting you are talking about is built on a lie, it's a promise without payment. Whereas true connection/bonding is built on authenticity, mutual disclosure and trust. I don't see how one leads to the other. Perhaps you can explain that?

IME it does. And yes, it may seem like I take things personal, coz I take it from personal experience, so here I go again (I do this coz I don't wanna speak for others btw):

The thing is that the fun flirty banter just allows you to get to know someone without really having any pressure and keeping it lighthearthed. If you do keep talking to each other, there's usually a pretty good click. You get to know stuff about each other, you tend to talk about personal things, so the bond is very real. You connect. But the flirting is just a means to facilitate this and to also interject some humor and some lightheartedness into more serious conversations. Also, it tends to provide comforting and an accepting feeling from both sides.

To me, those feelings are real. The flirting might be meant in a joking way and is more a means to an end, but the effect it has, is real, and creates a feeling of safety andtrust with the other person often. And that kinda intense bond is precious to me, so I do seek it out. Mind you, this doesn't happen with every person you encounter, as there are levels of intensity in friendship as well, and I treasure all of those connections, as they all have their benefits.

 

[seeker22]

being my curious self, I was asking him questions all night. After dinner he left and my cousin asked if he should set me up with that guy - since I was flirting with him the whole night. I was so baffled by that.

On the way home on the subway, an elderly lady sat down next to me and asked me about directions. She seemed so sweet and we started talking. She told me about her children and her living through all different hardships. When she got off the train, my cousin said "nevermind, I get it now. you look people in the eye intensely and pay attention them. I guess people rarely look directly in my eyes, so when they do, it feels like flirting"

Precisely. This is EXACTLY the kind of interaction I have been referring to. I see no "unspoken sexual promise" anywhere in this equation.

ENFPs have a natural curiosity that drives them, and this curiosity towards and engagement with others can oft times be misinterpreted.

 

[Salomé]

IME it does. And yes, it may seem like I take things personal, coz I take it from personal experience, so here I go again (I do this coz I don't wanna speak for others btw):

The thing is that the fun flirty banter just allows you to get to know someone without really having any pressure and keeping it lighthearthed. If you do keep talking to each other, there's usually a pretty good click. You get to know stuff about each other, you tend to talk about personal things, so the bond is very real. You connect. But the flirting is just a means to facilitate this and to also interject some humor and some lightheartedness into more serious conversations. Also, it tends to provide comforting and an accepting feeling from both sides.

To me, those feelings are real. The flirting might be meant in a joking way and is more a means to an end, but the effect it has, is real, and creates a feeling of safety andtrust with the other person often. And that kinda intense bond is precious to me, so I do seek it out. Mind you, this doesn't happen with every person you encounter, as there are levels of intensity in friendship as well, and I treasure all of those connections, as they all have their benefits.

Ah. That's interesting, thanks. I guess we just perceive these things differently. I'm inclined to think the person is a horrible fake, or confusing, at best. Which creates, rather than breaks down boundaries for me. That's probably why INTPs suck at flirting.

 

[Udog]

Flirting is not without consequence. This is a recent epiphany for me. I used to think it was harmless.

This sums up the thread.

Flirtation adds a color, fun, and edge to personal interaction, and the world would be less interesting without it. Light flirtation doesn't mean sexual interest by any means, but it does introduce a sexual element. When you add that sexual element, no matter how slight, it opens the door up to confusion.

As a fellow _NFP, I understand the flirtation for what it is - a way to intensify personal interaction. I can see how it can create confusion with some people. (Urban Dictionary: enfp).

It's a fair price to pay, but it's nonetheless a price to pay.

So where does the RESPONSIBILITY lie? The initiator or the recipient?

Can a flirt really control how someone interprets their remarks?

Take my attention at face value yes - but the ultimate INTERPRETATION I think lies with the recipient.

All this is fine, as long as it's not a fancy way of saying you don't want to take responsibility for your own actions.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Ah. That's interesting, thanks. I guess we just perceive these things differently. I'm inclined to think the person is a horrible fake, or confusing, at best. Which creates, rather than breaks down boundaries for me. That's probably why INTPs suck at flirting.

Bingo.

I will say that my flirtatious and goofy forum behavior is nonexistent when I navigate myself socially, in the real world. If I encounter flirtation I get immediately suspicious.

 

[Amargith]

As a fellow _NFP, I understand the flirtation for what it is - a way to intensify personal interaction.

+100000000

Though the rest of the post is equally valid, this to me, is the core.



edit: Blue, thank you for understanding. And just like Jock indicated, I too am not nearly as flirty irl, as I am on here. Then the risks are higher, indeed, and caution is definitely advised at that point.