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  1. #361
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I've been trying to understand my own objections. And I think it comes down to this. The function of flirtatious behaviour in human society is broadly the same as that of courtship behaviour in lower animals - it signals sexual availability/desirability, and helps with pair-bonding.

    I guess it's the dishonesty of falsely signaling sexual availability that bothers me. If you tell someone you're taken, but you *signal* availability. You are sending out mixed messages. And we all know 90% of communication is non-verbal.

    I used to be paranoid about not sending out the wrong signals and so avoided anything that might be construed as flirtatious either in dress or behaviour. That's pretty boring though and cramps one's style too severely. But INTPs are pretty unavailable people in most respects. I don't like making a display of myself for the attention of random people and I don't want to pretend to be available when I'm not. So I don't really understand that impulse. ENFPs are much happier about putting on a show - you only have to look at all the self-avatars and photos posted here, as well as the expansive and animated way that they use language/emoticons/gestures to see that.

    They are just naturally "skilled" at this kind of courtship display, but the appropriateness of the context is sometimes lost on them.
    What you just wrote implies that you want to transcend your species. That's fine, but it has nothing to do with T or F. You say "they" put on a display, they could say that you are repressed and refuse to accept that you are also human (an animal - no such thing as "lower" or "higher", imo). Just because we can rationalize biological impulse doesn't mean we can avoid it. We understand menstruation, but we still have to do it, whether we will it that way or not. We are animals, too.

  2. #362
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    What you just wrote implies that you want to transcend your species.
    Well, naturally. It's called a superiority complex
    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    That's fine, but it has nothing to do with T or F. You say "they" put on a display, they could say that you are repressed and refuse to accept that you are also human (an animal - no such thing as "lower" or "higher", imo). Just because we can rationalize biological impulse doesn't mean we can avoid it. We understand menstruation, but we still have to do it, whether we will it that way or not. We are animals, too.
    Not really. I think I already stated that I recognised that my old view was unbalanced. And that flirting has a function.
    It's dishonesty I take issue with. Whilst realizing that most human contracts involve some sort of dishonesty - especially the ones we have with ourselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #363
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Really cannot be more honest than telling you bluntly: "hey, I'm just having some fun, plz tell me to stop if you don't enjoy it, and yes, I am taken." Sorry. If that doesn't tell the other person what the deal is, what does?
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  4. #364
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Really cannot be more honest than telling you bluntly: "hey, I'm just having some fun, plz tell me to stop if you don't enjoy it, and yes, I am taken." Sorry. If that doesn't tell the other person what the deal is, what does?
    You are being very naive. It's charming, but you need to open your mind a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #365
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Well, naturally. It's called a superiority complex

    Not really. I think I already stated that I recognised that my old view was unbalanced. And that flirting has a function.
    It's dishonesty I take issue with. Whilst realizing that most human contracts involve some sort of dishonesty - especially the ones we have with ourselves.
    In my opinion, it is the most honest thing about us. We delude ourselves into believing that we are above animalistic behavior. We force ourselves to deny biology. But how many animals in the wild are monogamous? Flirting, social ritual - all of the basic nature of animals shine through us no matter how much we deny and pretend otherwise.

    So it is the fact that you wish to transcend and yet others just accept? Is it that you perceive them to be weaker in the mind, is that what you take issue with?

  6. #366
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i hate that this has turned into amargiths trial...she and her SO are fine and happy and her situation isn't the same for all enfps. i think most of us are saying that our natural way of relating to people is considered flirty but that we ourselves really are not flirting most of the time unless we are single and actually interested in someone...right?? or no??
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  7. #367
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    i hate that this has turned into amargiths trial...she and her SO are fine and happy and her situation isn't the same for all enfps. i think most of us are saying that our natural way of relating to people is considered flirty but that we ourselves really are not flirting most of the time unless we are single and actually interested in someone...right?? or no??
    +1

  8. #368
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Sigh, why don't I just buy a burqua and sit quietly in a corner then, honestly. Seriously, after all that, you're still gonna say its my responsibility when they misunderstand? Learn to see a game or a joke for what it is. To steal kuuyei's analogy: it's comparable to saying that the woman asked to be raped becoz of what she's wearing. I give up. Really. Misunderstand me then, see if I care. (Note, this is frustration speaking, not pointed at you specifically BM ) At least just about all the guys that I encounter and that do enjoy playing this game, seem to get it just fine and have no problem with it.


    Edit: Erin, it's ok. I jumped into this myself and I did want the opportunity to clear this out. I realize that I'm not in the same 'league' as most ENFPs here and I do hope that that is clear to everyone here. Sorry if I sorta took over the thread.
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  9. #369
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    In my opinion, it is the most honest thing about us. We delude ourselves into believing that we are above animalistic behavior. We force ourselves to deny biology. But how many animals in the wild are monogamous? Flirting, social ritual - all of the basic nature of animals shine through us no matter how much we deny and pretend otherwise.

    So it is the fact that you wish to transcend and yet others just accept? Is it that you perceive them to be weaker in the mind, is that what you take issue with?
    +1!
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  10. #370
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I think that people in this thread are underestimating cultural differences.

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