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  1. #281
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    It's a legitimate question. If she feels that I am engaging in something with the purpose of sexually exciting or creating feelings of romantic attachment, I would have to take this seriously. Obviously.
    Yeah, that's where the gray area lies--you might have a moral, black and white, policy about not flirting, but what happens when you don't really think you're flirting, but others do? That seems to be what the ENFPs are frustrated with.

    I guess the whole key to the thing is a) intent and b) what's within reason? I wouldn't change my entire personality for a boyfriend. But if I was doing something hurtful without realizing, I'd examine my behavior and be considerate. But there are those that get extremely possessive in a relationship, and are constantly convinced that you're out to cheat. That's not within reason, to me. At that point, I'd just realize that our personalities were not going to mesh, and that one or both of us would constantly be miserable.
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  2. #282
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Yeah, that's where the gray area lies--you might have a moral, black and white, policy about not flirting, but what happens when you don't really think you're flirting, but others do? That seems to be what the ENFPs are frustrated with.
    I guess this is where the respectful communication comes in. To a certain degree, even if I am unaware that I am flirting I must be able to recognize behaviors my partner or others find as flirting as determine how to proceed based on my consideration for these other parties. I guess I should concede that it is possible to be being "nice" or "yourself" and have this misconstrued, but I imagine this is the minority of behaviors.

    I guess the whole key to the thing is a) intent and b) what's within reason? I wouldn't change my entire personality for a boyfriend. But if I was doing something hurtful without realizing, I'd examine my behavior and be considerate. But there are those that get extremely possessive in a relationship, and are constantly convinced that you're out to cheat. That's not within reason, to me. At that point, I'd just realize that our personalities were not going to mesh, and that one or both of us would constantly be miserable.
    Agreed. I think this is where it is necessary to negotiate what is fair. Honest and respectful communication. The honesty part can be tough when acknowledging your own behavior.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #283
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinkleToes View Post
    And these people being worried (either as an ENFP, or someone in a relationship with an ENFP) I think it comes down to communication.
    In my case, I've tried to communicate with the ENFPs about what exactly constitutes over-the-top flirting. After the "sweet nothings" incident, the ENFP and I had a serious talk about this. He said he was sorry, that he didn't know it would bother me so much and he would never do something like that again. Okay, so a few weeks later I'm out at dinner with a friend and I receive a text from my ISFJ friend -- "Sorry, I don't want to ruin your night or anything but I'm at the club and _____ is here taking shots and flirting with this girl at the bar." At this point I just went :rolli: because I knew this relationship was going nowhere.

    The first ENFP was the one that cheated. With my best friend of 7 years.

    Well, I called it. I told them I thought they were getting too close, but whatever.

    I'm starting to think I'm the hopeless one. Because I'm currently interested in another super extraverted ENFP But I'll hope that the last two were wacked out and I'll get lucky this time. I've known ENFPs that realize that flirting can cause many problems and don't do it (my brother, for example).

  4. #284
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Oh, that makes me feel bad. Is that really true?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Personally? lol that's the perversion behind stereotypes Blue, I'm as calm and detached as I could possible be. I do feel the need to point out how most of this is being based on unsubstantial and unverifiable claims.
    I didn't say you were emo, I said you took it personally. There's a difference.
    Unsubstantial claims about what? This is just a discussion about the merits and demerits of flirting, not a thesis.

    You're cool and all Blue but I just can't give every post my attention I meant the tone of your subsequent posts, much like Synarch's, seemed kinda ad hominem.
    Errm. No. You read one post where I revealed personal experience and concluded that it has made me bitter towards ENFPs, because that's what would have happened to you, perhaps. It did nothing of the kind. (This is why I don't reveal personal information much.)

    You agreed with Synarch on the most outrageous of all his claims concerning ENFPs. But don't misinterpret me either. I called you both bitter but I'm not deeply offended or anything. But there are clearly personal vendetta undertones to some of these posts I'm thinking. If not...well you can always dismiss it as biased NF rationale
    That wasn't about ENFPs! That was about flirts! That's how I read it anyway...
    I agree that this thread shouldn't focus exclusively on ENFPs. The worst flirts I've known have been ENTPs, actually, with the difference being that they usually know exactly what they are doing. (I bet they take that as a compliment tho, unlike you lads, LOL).

    Sure unhealthy ENFPs might have a problem with boundaries, but what of it?
    What's your issue with discussing it then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Admittedly, we are an odd lot. But the question remains--if your poking-at-people-with-a-stick and propensity towards innuendo-based wordplay is taken by others as flirtation, do you have a responsibility toward your significant other to stop it?
    I hate to be Synarch's wingman here, but he did actually reveal both here and in another rather heart-warming post on a similar thread that he has "seen the light" regarding this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #285
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    In my case, I've tried communicated with the ENFPs about what exactly constitutes over-the-top flirting. After the "sweet nothings" incident, the ENFP and I had a serious talk about this. He said he was sorry, that he didn't know it would bother me so much and he would never do something like that again. Okay, so a few weeks later I'm out at dinner with a friend and I receive a text from my ISFJ friend -- "Sorry, I don't want to ruin your night or anything but I'm at the club and _____ is here taking shots and flirting with this girl at the bar." At this point I just went :rolli: because I knew this relationship was going nowhere.

    The first ENFP was the one that cheated. With my best friend of 7 years.

    Well, I called it. I told them I thought they were getting too close, but whatever.

    I'm starting to think I'm the hopeless one. Because I'm currently interested in another super extraverted ENFP But I'll hope that the last two were wacked out and I'll get lucky this time. I've known ENFPs that realize that flirting can cause many problems and don't do it (my brother, for example).
    That sucks. The discipline and forethought required can be tough. It is a slippery slope. Friendly interactions can lead to other things. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    After some problems with this, I am more careful now. More mindful and watchful of myself, in general. For me, it mostly means avoiding certain types of private interactions or keeping things more impersonal in general. It is no one's responsibility but my own.

    Not to get all moralistic, but it reminds me of a story about Billy Graham I heard once. Apparently, he would never be alone with a woman other than his wife. Not even in an elevator. That's extreme, but it shows you how we must be mindful of the natural attraction men and women have for one another despite what we know to be good or best.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  6. #286
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I hate to be Synarch's wingman here, but he did actually reveal both here and in another rather heart-warming post on a similar thread that he has "seen the light" regarding this issue.
    Yes. I think this is why my stance can seem so strident is that I feel like I can understand both sides very well.

    Not to get all emo, but I've struggled with a lot of things over the past year and this is but one of them.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  7. #287
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I'm starting to think I'm the hopeless one. Because I'm currently interested in another super extraverted ENFP But I'll hope that the last two were wacked out and I'll get lucky this time.
    LOL. Kryptonite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #288
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    LOL. Kryptonite.
    By the way, thanks for being my wingman!
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  9. #289
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I didn't say you were emo, I said you took it personally. There's a difference.
    I didn't, but I wanted to speak up.

    Unsubstantial claims about what? This is just a discussion about the merits and demerits of flirting, not a thesis.
    "This ENFP did this to me", "That ENFP did that to him", that kind of thing. As if a couple of examples sufficed or brought with them anything relevant to the the "ENFPs flirting with no sense of boundaries" claim.


    Errm. No. You read one post where I revealed personal experience and concluded that it has made me bitter towards ENFPs, because that's what would have happened to you, perhaps. It did nothing of the kind. (This is why I don't reveal personal information much.)
    That wasn't even it really. More the tone of your posts. I don't want to get petty but you "QFT"ing Synarch's post for instances. I'll concede that it could be a perception problem but bear in mind I was being kinda tongue-in-cheek myself. In a "why Synarch...Blue...you guys seem bitter!".


    I agree that this thread shouldn't focus exclusively on ENFPs.
    That's part of the point behind my posts. This smeels like ENFPs on trial.


    What's your issue with discussing it then?
    None, if done with an open mind which doesn't seem to be the case with some of the posts. I think my problem is relating it to type and trying to justify it with type inclinations in a topic called "ENFPs: Hopeless Flirts?". But I really don't care much. Just sharing my view on how the topic is progressing.

  10. #290
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Hopeless - no
    Flirts-yes


    This is generalization.

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