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  1. #11
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    i've often felt the same way to the point of avoiding relationships bc i didn't want to hurt someone else while still being so totally uncertain and conflicting as to where my feelings really lied.

    i think one of the problems with infj + infj is that, altho you can become extremely close, there is no introverted feeling in the relationship. we absorb and respond to the feelings of others, introverted feeling concentrates, sorts, weighs their feelings, most of all, coupled with Si, they KEEP them.

    we don't nearly as much, we are use once and discard. the feelings change how we interpret things, they affect our intuition and sometimes drastically rework its landscape, but we don't have them accessible and they don't stick around like they do for introverted feelers like infps.

    as a result it is very difficult for us to KNOW how we feel. i am 25 but i feel soooo immature, i'm just learning why partly due to this. i've just gotten invovled with an intj girl, and the whole thing is driven by her tertiary introverted feeling. she is pushing it, she is supplying the concentrated collected coalesced feeling to keep us together. whereas i help articulate it, express it, tease it out.

    w/ other infjs it is very easy to trust them, but you're both inside out and don't know what is supposed to be directing you as a result. it's great bc you feel fully recognized, and it helps fulfill your needs, but problems remain that you have to contend with.

    i think it is possible to stay friends, but you have to have other things on your plate in order for that to work. i think infjs share a very strong connection (all types who share dom functions do), but as a result you should look elsewhere to get your bearings, to get the information you need to slowly discern what you need/want, etc.

  2. #12
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    also one other thing- i may say i need to explore the field or do something else. but people who stick around stick around. i mean, with infjs, at least from my own experience, i imagine our minds need to explore possibilities and revise our ideals and our images of the future that we are striving to attain. a slight shift in perspective and everything can fall into place.

  3. #13
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    He's scared. Maybe he subconsciously wants you to convince him that you want to be with him through his actualization process? Or that you think of him as somehow "equal" to you.

    He probably doesn't understand why you want to be with him -- he's convinced you can find someone better. His brake-up seems like a test. If you accept it, he was right. If you fight him, he may be convinced that you care more than he currently thinks.

    (This is very interesting to me since I'm dealing with the beginnings of getting involved with another INFJ myself.)
    I suppose in general INFJ's aren't as stubborn as INTP's, so maybe you're right. I know that for me, at the time, I would have been too stubborn to listen to the girl I broke up with. I genuinly -felt- wrong for her (relationships in general), surely nothing she could say would make me change that. Out of respect for her I ended it.

    If it is a 'test' though, I can't quite relate. If he does believe that's how relationships work, I for one wouldn't date him. :P But again, that's my stubbornness. xD

  4. #14
    Senior Member penelope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    If he doesn't want to have a relationship, no matter what reason he has, then you do deserve better. He needs to do whatever it takes to be with you, or shouldn't be with you at all.
    I do sort of agree with that. I mostly understand why he broke it off, but that does slip into my mind... if he really wanted to be with me, he'd work a way around it, wouldn't he?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    He's scared. Maybe he subconsciously wants you to convince him that you want to be with him through his actualization process? Or that you think of him as somehow "equal" to you.

    He probably doesn't understand why you want to be with him -- he's convinced you can find someone better. His brake-up seems like a test. If you accept it, he was right. If you fight him, he may be convinced that you care more than he currently thinks.
    That's a possibility, and believe me, I fought and fought to keep us together. But understanding and supporting his wish to "fix" himself overpowered my selfishness to keep him.

    But here's something interesting I should add - he wanted to almost make me hate him so that he'd have motivation to solve his issues in the first place so that, I suppose, the relationship would be equal. That doesn't make sense to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i've often felt the same way to the point of avoiding relationships bc i didn't want to hurt someone else while still being so totally uncertain and conflicting as to where my feelings really lied.

    i think one of the problems with infj + infj is that, altho you can become extremely close, there is no introverted feeling in the relationship. we absorb and respond to the feelings of others, introverted feeling concentrates, sorts, weighs their feelings, most of all, coupled with Si, they KEEP them.

    we don't nearly as much, we are use once and discard. the feelings change how we interpret things, they affect our intuition and sometimes drastically rework its landscape, but we don't have them accessible and they don't stick around like they do for introverted feelers like infps.

    as a result it is very difficult for us to KNOW how we feel. i am 25 but i feel soooo immature, i'm just learning why partly due to this. i've just gotten invovled with an intj girl, and the whole thing is driven by her tertiary introverted feeling. she is pushing it, she is supplying the concentrated collected coalesced feeling to keep us together. whereas i help articulate it, express it, tease it out.

    w/ other infjs it is very easy to trust them, but you're both inside out and don't know what is supposed to be directing you as a result. it's great bc you feel fully recognized, and it helps fulfill your needs, but problems remain that you have to contend with.

    i think it is possible to stay friends, but you have to have other things on your plate in order for that to work. i think infjs share a very strong connection (all types who share dom functions do), but as a result you should look elsewhere to get your bearings, to get the information you need to slowly discern what you need/want, etc.
    That's very helpful, thank you. And you're right. While he and I were very, very close, there was still something that wasn't quite balanced. I think that's where he might be thinking he needs to get away to solve it. I'm not sure.

  5. #15
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Either way, you seem to have a lot going on for you. I'm not saying I know you, because I can't say I do. But judging from this topic, I wouldn't be too down about it if I were you.

    You will do yourself a huge favor by moving on, instead of staying in a disfunctional relationship, or waiting for someone who might not ever be truely ready.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    You sorta look like Clare from Claymore in your avatar. And that's gotta be the nerdiest comment I made today, but really felt like it.
    OMG. You're so totally right! Nice observation!

    Anyhow. I've been in the same situation as the guy, me being the one saying I need space and time to myself and couldn't focus on the relationship. For me it was because I honestly believed I didn't deserve the girl. And she deserved someone better than me. I was at the time still struggling with my past. And I was right, I didn't deserve her, because me believing that I didn't deserve her was more then enough to actually not deserve her.

    If he doesn't want to have a relationship, no matter what reason he has, then you do deserve better. He needs to do whatever it takes to be with you, or shouldn't be with you at all.
    Gotta disagree here. A person that has low self-esteem should push themselves further down by the belief they don't deserve the other person, or that the other person can do better.

    As someone who suffered this problem as well. I had a major break through with my INFJ friend. I also advised her the same thing when she had this problem with her new boyfriend, when he tried to pull off the whole "I don't deserve you card" but in that situation he was trying to fob her off.

    What I learnt that day...

    I shouldn't assume I know what's best for my friend. There's an element of ego/arrogancy involved in the whole idea that she shouldn't be with me. The truth is... She decided that she wanted to be with me for whatever reasons, and the only thing I should have concerned myself about is whether I truthfully want to be together despite my own flaws. She can look after herself.

    PS. The feelings of inadaqecy can be so strong that it creates a sense of learned helplessness. Effectively it creates a viscious cycle of desire to fix ourselves, not being able to, hating ourselves for being weak willed (due to our desire to fix ourselves) which further demotivates us.

    It's rather complicated really.

  7. #17
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Well, naturally it could mean all kinds of things for all kinds of people. I can only speak from my own experiences.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Well, naturally it could mean all kinds of things for all kinds of people. I can only speak from my own experiences.
    To be honest... That's how I felt back then. But I try to maintain objective about the whole thing, and realise that it's sort of an illusion. To me, it would have only served to destroy my self-esteem further with the idea that I "SHOULD" be able to beat my problems and be with her when I was struggling so much.

    Looks like you got out the low-self esteem problem though. Assuming here that's what was the cause of your relationship problem back then.

  9. #19
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I was going through a rough time, story about it is in my blogpost if you really want to know. At the time, I honestly believed I'd never be ready for a relationship myself though.

    But yes, I am past that now.

  10. #20
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by penelope View Post
    That's very helpful, thank you. And you're right. While he and I were very, very close, there was still something that wasn't quite balanced. I think that's where he might be thinking he needs to get away to solve it. I'm not sure.
    yeah Ni needs time to sift, sort, take in the Ti impressions, the Fe feeling tones, moods, dreams, etc. i'm kind of frustrated this morning but it's already wearing off. slight changes to the meaning of something, how things fit together, the story, the context, the plot, etc, they reshape how i engage and approach any specific thing in my life. the whole mood changes and different connections light up, seem possible/impossible. it's exhausting to keep up and know if you really have your aim pinpointed properly.

    i find it really difficult figuring out what we are supposed to be aiming for. the feeling that others use to guide them, their own subjectively imbibed relationships to things, the feelings that get attached to them on post-it notes, they aren't there for me. i don't remember, i'm constantly asking myself questions of "what SHOULD i do" rather than "what do i WANT"... everything subjectively valued to me seems to come from outside of myself, i can accept or deny the feeling already present within it. the transparency of my own framework of connections that i have built up so far is all that i have to go off of

    i don't have total confidence in my ability to extravert, in Fe and Se, to help solve situations in the moment and to avoid hurting others or letting them down as easily. my desires are slower, more recessed, more buried, it takes a while to unpack them.

    the most immediate and palpable connection i have is with Ni dom types and more oppositionally with Ne types. Fi and Ti types too give me something to use immediately, to put to work, to JUDGE, to have a sense of something like a foothold to hold on to. Ni it's just about the feeling of understanding, connecting, transparency, potential for very deep communication. but the rest can be a muddle without highly developed highly expressed words, gestures, symbols, etc.

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